Ciaran The King Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I recently watched the 'Rise & Fall of ECW' just because it is a great insight into ECW. The question that popped into my mind was "where does Paul Heyman fit into the history of wrestling?" I know Paul Heyman as the guy who strolled onto Monday Night Raw in 2001 and sat alongside J.R. at the announce desk and then lead the ECW invasion during the abysmal invasion angle. In the years after he introduced Brock Lesnar, became smackdown GM and relaunched ECW in WWE's vision. Most recently he returned as Punk and Lesnar's manager and more recently he took to guiding the careers of Curtis Axel and Ryback. Personally he has been the highlight of many episodes of Raw and SD with amazing performances and blistering promos and gave and outstanding performance during the Punk/Lesnar feud. Obviously he has done so much more in the years before I remember and he may go on to do much more but I ask "How good is Paul Heyman?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 As a manager and performer he's outstanding. As a booker and writer he's very creative and effective, taking into account ECW and the Smackdown Six. He also did OVW post-Corny but I didn't see any of it. As a promoter and business man he sucked. That's pretty it in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hancock Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Totally agree with Jimmy. Excellent creative guy, excellent on-screen character, excellent talent scout, shitty businessman, shitty pro-wrestling promoter. He's the kind of guy who works best when he's working for someone else, which is the same for a massive amount of backstage guys, especially big controversial names like Heyman and, of course, Vince Russo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 As a businessman yes he was lousy but was he really that bad of a promoter though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Yeah I was about to say, when I read over what I and Rock said, maybe I should rephrase that. As a promoter he had a successful #3 promotion that got as close as you want to claim to WCW houses towards the end. He also created a lasting brand name that made serious money long after it went under (just not for him) and revolutionised the way wrestling was worked in America to a certain extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 ECW most definitely contributed to the attitude era and also helped make wrestling serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etz Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 To be fair to Heyman, he wasn't really that bad of a businessman either, he just got shafted by TNN in favor of RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I wonder why TNN even signed ECW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViciousPrism Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 It was to test the waters of having pro wrestling on their channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I imagine so but ECW and WWE in 1999 were two different products Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsrchris Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Which is why they ended up going with WWE instead of ECW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Which was obvious to all? ECW could never be massively successful on national TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etz Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Which was obvious to all? ECW could never be massively successful on national TV Actually, it was the highest rated show on TNN, despite zero advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I totally forgot that, but could it of lasted long term if it had stayed on TNN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etz Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Probably, but WWE would have still gone down the road it did, which may have killed ECW in the end anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 If ECW had of lasted it would have had to change with the times and the pressure of TV now. There is no way the ECW model of 1999-2000 would still be going strong now. It would have grown stale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Heyman himself knew that (from various interviews on the subject) and has stated the direction would have changed with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatherof10minis Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I thought Heyman was a hell of a promoter. He made an entire city obsess about his company. There has never been a more loyal fanbase in wrestling than the original ECW fanbase. They took pride in what they did. Heyman also gave alot of guys who would have never had a shot with WWE or WCW great exposure. Heyman also allowed the open forum which resulted in some of the absolute best and historic promos in wrestling. Steve Austin and Mic Foley just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 The Foley and Austin promos still stand strong even today, they were so good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The Austin "No baby that's for somebody else" ECW promo might be my favourite promo of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 I really liked Foley's promo after his match with Sabu when he threw the title on the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The best promos have always been the worked/shoot.....Foley and Austin's promos in ECW were amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Talking of promos I loved Ortons the night after he beat Foley at Backlash 2004 But yeah the unscripted/shoot promos are usual the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrythunk Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'd say he is. In terms of a promo man, he is amazing. When he promotes a fight, he is captivating, he effortlessly plugs the date and time a few times without it being obvious, he just hits all of his marks A1. As a booker, he brought the best out of a limited talent pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran The King Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Even now as an onscreen manager he does everything possible to get everyone over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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