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Dolph Ziggler BERRIED / Drawing (split)


Maxximus
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The Wrestling Observer Newsletter is reporting that the word going around backstage in WWE is that WWE officials have gone sour on Dolph Ziggler and they feel that he will never be a star who can draw big ratings or big money for them.

 

AND REDMAN KNOCKS ONE OUT OF THE PARK!

 

Sucks for you Ziggler fans.

 

Call me delusional if you will, but what's the chances of this "leak" being a work that seems to tie in neatly with everything else that's going on? Like, that whole "never draw money or ratings" sounds like it's straight out of a recent TrollHunter promo?

 

I'm kinda hoping this is more of the "new kayfabe" that Maxxy mentioned a while back. Like I say, probably delusional, but I'd love it if WWE started working the dirtsheets too as part of this angle.

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Call me delusional if you will, but what's the chances of this "leak" being a work that seems to tie in neatly with everything else that's going on? Like, that whole "never draw money or ratings" sounds like it's straight out of a recent TrollHunter promo?

 

I'm kinda hoping this is more of the "new kayfabe" that Maxxy mentioned a while back. Like I say, probably delusional, but I'd love it if WWE started working the dirtsheets too as part of this angle.

 

:lol

 

I'm sorry dude, I just... :lol

 

I'm sure that when/if Dolph has a confrontation with Hunter/Steph they will use that line on him, but I think you've got the massively wrong end of the chicken/egg stick there.

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Cant be about ratings and drawing money though, because CM Punk does neither and he had the longest reign in years. And DBry has proven to be a shit ratings and buyrate guy and his push continues.

 

People are just pissy with Ziggler because he doesnt give a f*ck what he says in interviews outside of WWE. He'll learn to shut up and he'll get his turn with the top belts just like everybody else does.

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The ratings won't improve whilst WWE is seen as being uncool, so I don't think you can hold it against anyone for not drawing good numbers. The ratings might go up a tiny bit for someone like The Rock or Lesnar but if they were regulars, the ratings would fall to be just like they are now because the WWE has alienated itself from the key demographic. There's no way the WWE can lure in masses of 18-30 year males whilst the product is PG, it's just not going to happen. A character as good as Austin from 1997-1999 could debut on RAW this Monday but it wouldn't make a difference to the ratings. It'll take a change in the direction of the company as a whole, not a figurehead, to start getting bigger TV numbers and PPV buys.

 

Cena, Punk, Bryan, Ziggler...whoever, it really doesn't matter. A large demographic don't want to watch WWE in 2013 and that won't change on a significant level depending on who is seen as being the top dog.

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:lol

 

I'm sorry dude, I just... :lol

 

I'm sure that when/if Dolph has a confrontation with Hunter/Steph they will use that line on him, but I think you've got the massively wrong end of the chicken/egg stick there.

 

I'm pretty much with Belty and Jack in as much as nobody draws any more, so how is that even an excuse for being down on someone? Regardless of who is champ (well, except Cena, but he doesn't exactly have MASSIVE drawing power) they've done nothing for numbers.

 

If there'd been a leak that said they're down on Dolph for not keeping his mouth to himself about certain people then I'd believe it. It's just the talk about drawing money that makes me wanna call work.

 

Like I said, probably delusional, but I don't think it's totally outside the realms of possibility. Certainly not lol-worthy anyways.

 

If you want lol-worthy you should go see all the fan boys getting aggro on the various Facebook wrestling pages that reported this.

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I'm pretty much with Belty and Jack in as much as nobody draws any more, so how is that even an excuse for being down on someone? Regardless of who is champ (well, except Cena, but he doesn't exactly have MASSIVE drawing power) they've done nothing for numbers.

 

If there'd been a leak that said they're down on Dolph for not keeping his mouth to himself about certain people then I'd believe it. It's just the talk about drawing money that makes me wanna call work.

 

Like I said, probably delusional, but I don't think it's totally outside the realms of possibility. Certainly not lol-worthy anyways.

 

If you want lol-worthy you should go see all the fan boys getting aggro on the various Facebook wrestling pages that reported this.

 

I don't think it is 100% out of the realm of possibility, to put it that way, but I find it highly unlikely. It has nothing to do with current storyline as it is, and as Omega pointed out in the other thread, they're not setting out to just "work the sheets" for the lulz, everything they do is referenced on TV in some way.

 

If they had said it about The Miz, for example, coming off the "utility player" angle he's currently in, it would sound like kayfabe. This doesn't. This just sounds like the latest news on the status of Dolph Ziggler in the company, and it is reflected easily enough by all possible evidence.

 

I'm not saying that whoever said it is correct in their assessment, or even convinced that anyone important actually said that at all. You have to take all sheet news with however much salt is to your tastes. And if Dolph isn't over to their liking they hardly have anyone else to blame but themselves since he is about the biggest jobber in company history. But I definitely think that crying "work", in this case, is you grasping at straws to come up with something, anything, that isn't Dolph being in the proverbial "doghouse".

 

I admire your dedication to a guy against all possible odds, believe me. But you are starting to sound a little cray cray about it, with the least possible offense meant.

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I dunno, I think it's because I really want this to be an all encompassing angle with the Corporate stuff, so now I'm looking at every little news story as how it could tie in to the bigger picture.

 

I don't want to seem like I'm obsessing about Dolph, I'm honestly not, I'm just digging for clues that may point to where this angle is heading next.

 

Believe me, WWE is not sending my sh*t cray cray just yet! :lol

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D Bryan hasn't proven anything yet.
No, and he's had 2 main event PPV title matches and weeks of TV attention in the main spot on RAW and, like you said before, his YES YES YES shit has been huge over for 18 months...so I think he's had time to at least move ONE weeks number which he hasnt done, and likely never will. Being over in the building doesnt mean shit. Punk proved that for well over a year.

 

So anybody who thinks Dolph wont get his chance because he doesnt pull a rating on RAW or draw a butrate is an idiot. He'll get his shot.

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Even as a face he doesnt seem to act much different than he does as a heel. I think he's one of those cocky, arrogant guys who can get over playing the same deal in either role.

 

That's what I'm thinking, for the most part your character shouldn't really change depending on your alignment, just your motives for doing what you're doing. Look at guys like Austin or Rock.

 

It always feels a bit "off" when a character will change alignment and change everything about what they used to be (unless it's explained away properly, obviously).

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Even as a face he doesnt seem to act much different than he does as a heel. I think he's one of those cocky, arrogant guys who can get over playing the same deal in either role.

 

See, this is my problem with Dolph and I LOVE Dolph. He, to me obviously, is the best seller in the WWE bar none. The problem with his selling is that a lot of times, IMO, he OVER sells. Reigns or Ambrose hit him with 4 punches and he acts like he's been driven through 8 burning tables.

 

Like Belty said, Dolph does the exact same thing right now that he used to do as a heel, yet WWE expects him to be massively cheered? He didn't "turn" on a heel in order to become a face, which would've made him more "likeable" to the average fan. He just got the shit beated out of him by a heel and WWE expected everyone to be like "awww he got screwed, let's cheer for him now". It doesn't work like that.

 

Some people are just born to play a certain role and Ziggler is one of those. Just like Orton and Miz are born to be bad guys.

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The thing that amuses me is that now Ziggler is "face" there's this new consensus that he sucks as a face but the reason he's face is that those same fans cheered him as if he was a face when he was a heel. They are the reason he's this thing you now think sucks, despite him being exactly what he was before just without an AJ or Big E. If you'd supported his character by booing him like you should because he' the heel then he'd still be one. Simples.
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The thing that amuses me is that now Ziggler is "face" there's this new consensus that he sucks as a face but the reason he's face is that those same fans cheered him as if he was a face when he was a heel. They are the reason he's this thing you now think sucks, despite him being exactly what he was before just without an AJ or Big E. If you'd supported his character by booing him like you should because he' the heel then he'd still be one. Simples.

 

But Omega, everyone knows that heels are kewl and faces are poopy!

 

This is actually one of the best examples of that since Dolph has changed almost nothing about himself as a face. But hey, he's a face, so ewww.

 

Also yes, Drake hit the nail on the head with the bumping. It got him noticed but it also dooms him to be a jobber for all eternity.

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No, but he also had an awesome character and the advantage of being from the late 80s where they actually pushed people and stuff.

 

And Perfect never won the WWE Title or really became a main eventer, if you think about it. There was a ceiling, and I think the fact that he was a small pinballing heel was definitely relevant.

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And in the ring, he should develop more offense. 90% of the time he's getting the hell beaten out of him.

 

This.

 

He was building momentum before the concussion though, and then fizzled out with the Big. E fued.

 

I think he is just not putting it all together currently. He needs to know when to bump and when to BUMP, and also have more offence. For all his flippy ass, broken to pieces asskickings he takes, he doesn't have a flippy ass, broken to pieces risk taking offence to match it so at times he feels unbalanced.

 

I mean Bryan gets it with a suicide dive, the diving headbutt, the offensive layers he has. Shawn offense was weak but he got it. But then theres Ziggler... he is throwing 10 elbows and a wiggle two minutes into the match sometimes.

 

But the crowd want to cheer him, so lets see how it goes when he gets his break again.

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