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Racist Vitriol on The Croydon Tramlink


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As disgusting as it is, even as someone with Eastern European ancestry (and Jewish and Middle Eastern ancestry whilst we're listing our "I'm not racist, but" credentials) who's had to put up with this shit, and a lot worse, throughout my life, sometimes, freedom of speech entails hearing really shitty, stupid, ignorant things, and I think really any sort of limits on that do more harm than good. Like, obviously kick the woman of the tram of whatever, but it seems like the idiot-woman's being tracked down by police after the event to be prosecuted for what effectively come down to the crime of "saying mean things to people". That's the part that makes me a little bit uncomfortable with the reaction to this. Edited by John Hancock
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Yeah, but, on an official, legal level? Like, I get the whole thing of just sadistic joy in bad things happening to her because she's an awful human being, but do you really want to be getting into the territory of banning giving your children opinions the government doesn't agree with?


To me, this issue is like the death penalty for pedophilia;


I'm glad when pedophiles die, but I'm uncomfortable with the moral repercussions on a social level of them being killed.

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If being a d*ck is illegal (which in this case it kind of is, and with proof of it happening) then I'm fine with her getting the consequences. After all its not like she will get a jail term, she'll get a bit of a fine and some community service at most. In fact I'd hope that by getting official problems over it that people who would otherwise use this as an excuse to be d*cks in return will think twice. OK, not likely, but I can hope.


And she cab give the kid whatever opinion, thats her right. Its also the right of the child to have seen the consequences of those opinions. No?


As long as she doesnt get a jail term, that would be a bit much for me.

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1.11 in the video - "go back to Siber-****ing-nig-nigraguwa!"


:lol, was she about to say Siberia?


I kinda agree with both J-rock and Darkie (now your name isn't Darkstar that sounds like I'm being a racist tw*t), whilst I don't think this sort of thing should be tolerated at all, I bet every single other person on that tram was thinking "f*ck, that womans a complete scumbag", which is a good sign.


I don't really think she should be sent to prison or anything, the embarrassment from this video should be enough. I do, however, compeltely despise the complete lack of tact in public when it comes to her language. Does it make me prudish if I don't want to hear every sentence punctuated with the F word? If you're swearing and someone asks you to stop, I'd say it wasn't too much of a inconvenience to just find another word to use.


EDIT: Freespirit - Can I post this on Facebook please? I think this needs to go round the block a bit.

Edited by Phil
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And she cab give the kid whatever opinion, thats her right. Its also the right of the child to have seen the consequences of those opinions. No?


But the consequence of the opinion makes the Mum into a victim. It stops the act, but not the thought. A convincing argument against racism isn't, "Don't be racist or the police will make your Mum pay them money", a convincing argument is exactly why racism is stupid and factually wrong. It's why banning any sort of thought or opinion is stupid because, in a way, it validates it. The child is, at best, being taught to keep their opinions to themselves, and, at worst, that their Mum's right, the country IS against white people to such a point that, if anyone even mentions it, the thought-police turn up to cleanse your opinions. At no point in the process is the child being taught anything about the inaccuracy of racism.


Imagine if the American government banned 9/11 conspiracy theories, it would just make them look even more right. (That makes it sound like I believe any 9/11 conspiracy theories :lol For the record, I don't)


It's the easy way out for the government to just punish people for having unpopular opinions rather than actually bothering to try and educate people.

Edited by John Hancock
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Can't we just get Maxx to go around shooting people? That way we all get what we want!


Also, I'm not deliberately setting out to be controversial, but isn't the woman right on one count - there are a lot more black and European people in this country than there were 20 years ago. i think that's pretty indisputable. The problem I have is this foul woman claiming it's 'her' Britain and that she somehow has the right to decide who should be allowed in and who shouldn't. She raises a point, lots of blacks and Poles in Britain, but then goes on about it like they're the next coming of the Black Death or something, which is bollocks and incredibly ignorant.


Maybe she needs educating into a little thing called history?!

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But the consequence of the opinion makes the Mum into a victim.


No, I should have been a bit more accurate. Its not the opinion thats got the consequences, its the actions that have. The giving shit to otherwise innocent people.


Yes education is the way forwards, but punishment for causing shit should still be there as well. I am a believer in using both carrot and stick.

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It's not so much that I'm saying "punishment doesn't work", it's more that I agree with the American definition of free speech in that I don't think anything anyone says, short of the famous "Shouting fire in a theatre" loophole should, in itself, be illegal. Homophobia, racism, anti-semitism, conspiracy theories, Holocaust-denial, I just, 100%, don't agree with any law that bans any sort of speech about anything. She never once encouraged a crime, she never called on black people to be killed or anything, she just said, very loudly, and very rudely, that she doesn't like certain people. If that's against the law, pretty much every evangelical religion in the country better start looking over their shoulders.


It's just a very, VERY slippery slope, and, just general, a bit of a dick move. It's just one of those things I don't believe the government should have any involvement or say in. It's disturbing that the British government is know legally allowed to determine what people can and can't say in public.

Edited by John Hancock
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I admit to not having watched the entire thing, so I assumed there was more to it than what there was. Yeah, you're utterly right. I had gotten the impression that she was giving it the old 'I'll get you battered' shite that you hear on public transport from drugged up morons and was basing it on that. I should have checked a bit better first.
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I just had to transcribe that entire thing for some American friends who couldn't follow the accents in the screamier parts, so, whilst I've got it all here, for anyone who doesn't want to watch the video (I left every swear word to be completely starred out, because even writing just "f*ck" that many times is a little bit extreme for a family site);


British White Woman: What's this country come to? A load of black people, and a load of ****ing Polish, a load of ****ing Indians. Yeah, you all ****ing… you know what I mean? You aren't English.


Unseen:No I'm not, no


British White Woman: You aren't English either


Unseen: Yes I am


British White Woman: You aren't English, none of you are ****ing English. Get back to your own ****ing… Do you know what? Sort out your own countries, don't come and do mine. Britain is nothing now, Britain's **** all. My Britain is **** all now. Britain's **** all. My British is **** all.


African Black Woman: Excuse me, there are little kids on the tram


British White Woman:Yeah, fine


African Black Woman: Why do we have to take you…


British White Woman: I've got a little kid here


African Black Woman: Well, have some respect yeah?


British White Woman: Have respect?


African Black Woman: Yeah, there's little boys here, don't use those words


British White Woman: I've got a little boy here


African Black Woman: Get off the tram then


British White Woman:**** you, and you. **** you


African Black Woman: Does someone need to throw you off?


British White Woman: Really?


African Black Woman: Yeah!


British White Woman: I dare you, I ****ing dare you


African Black Woman: Just watch your language man


British White Woman: Don't tell me to watch my language, go back to where you come from, go back to Siberia, ****ing Nicaragua, or wherever you come from


African Black Woman: If we don't come here, you guys don't want to do no work


British White Woman: Just ****ing go back


African Black Woman: You guys don't want to work, we have to do the work for you


British White Woman: I work, I work, I work, this is my British country, until we let you lot come over


African Black Woman: So what?


British White Woman: Yeah, so what?


African Black Woman: So what?


British White Woman: Yeah, it's my British country, you aren't British


African Black Woman: Yes I am


British White Woman: Are you British?


African Black Woman: Yes I am, I am


British White Woman: You aren't ****ing British, **** off, you aren't British, you're black, you're black, you aren't British


African Black Woman: So what, I'm black


British White Woman: Where did you come from, where did you come from, where did you come from?


Second British White Woman: Can you quiet down? Because now your waking up my ****ing baby, so do you want to shut your ****ing mouth?


British White Woman: I want to know where she comes from


Second British White Woman: No, now you're waking my baby up, so I'm angry. I'm English, so what have you got to say to me? **** all, now shut your mouth


British White Woman: Shut your face


Second British White Woman: No, I won't shut my face


British White Woman: No, because someone's got to talk up to this lot. Look, the whole ****ing tram… look at them.


Second British White Woman: No


British White Woman: Who's black and who's white?


Second British White Woman: But what's wrong with that?


British White Woman: It's all black and ****ing brown people

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The deepest irony of all is that if that stupid bitch knew the first thing about history, she'd realise that, by her own definition, she isn't British herself. She's a ****ing half-breed Norman-Anglo-Saxon-Celt-whoever-the-****-else-raped-her-ancestors mixture. There haven't been actual Britons in Britain in thousands of years.


Oh, and while we're at it, she's not exactly helping the stereotype of the poor, thick, pig ignorant working class english scum. Not at all. She is, in fact, the very argument for controlling how they breed.


I'm all for freedom of speech... but I'm also for the consequences of said speech. Now where'd I leave my 50 cal....

Edited by etz
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What an absolute t**t


you dont like whats going on then do something about it rather than having a rant in front of children of how all foreigners are ruining the country.


Really p*sses me off that everyone here we see complains about it and yet they do nothing about it to get a change.


You dont like what the government is doing in the uk, do what the syrians are doing the now

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I agree with JRock in as much as that idiots and racists need to be able to spout their vitriol as, if they are repressed then it's going to simmer until it boils up into hate violence.


I also share his dicotomy of enjoying seeing these people get punished, but don't agree that they should be punished.


I do feel though that the black lady handled herself very well and not got totally in her face and snapped Z's and sh*t.


I think the other thing is the context, what set this woman off in the first place? I mean, if she sat down on a tram and just started ranting, then she's a bit of a nutter, if someone made a comment to her which set her off, that could mean a different thing.

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