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RAW Discussion Thread - October 5, 2009 from Wilkes-Barre, PA (#854)


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The Rock v Triple H (who had wrestled many, many times before) and Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar (who, again, had wrestled many, many times before) were two awesome Iron Man Matches.

 

I can't see this being up there with those two, but the No Count-Out & No-DQ rule should allow them some serious shortcuts (brawling all over - and outside? - the arena, interference galore, etc).

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Yeah, because Cena going an hour would be just AWFUL.

 

Not that it will be Cena/HBK, of course, but I dont doubt it will be a good match. People have been sh*tting on Cena/Orton for months now and yet they've delivered on PPV every time. Although the problem isnt them having a bad Iron Man at all, but rather the fact that its their 735th match. Which I do agree with, they desperately need something new.

 

It is impossible to care about this show. Just impossible. The show was OK, really, not a bad show and with two pretty good matches. But...how could anyone possibly care?

 

I'm glad of the fact that Miz won the US Title. I feel terribly sorry for Kofi since his whole reign was entirely forgettable, through no fault of his own. He works hard but they never gave him anything at all, just random multi-man matches on PPV for no reason. He deserved a bit better, although everyone does on this show. In normal circumstances I'd be excited for this Miz title run and hope for big things and some cool promos and what not, but I honestly cant even get my hopes up anymore. The match was good but the build and childish angle were terrible, and really made me not care at all.

 

DX going after JeriShow (~!!!) to me is just exhibit #238 of Vince reading the boards. I'm really upset that they wasted that match with an hour's build though. They really should have left them alone for a while and then finally built up a big title match, but then again thats asking them to build properly to a wrestling match. Too much to expect, really.

 

God damn have they dropped Swagger off a cliff. 6 months ago on ECW he was a no-brainer as a future world champ, and now he's worthless. You could literally hear the crickets chirp during his match, it was pathetically depressing. I legit cant remember the last time I saw a match with such dead silence, and I've sat through a lot of ECW and Divas matches. This should not be happening.

 

Anyway my favourite part of Raw was LAYLA hitting her finisher on TV for only I think the second time in her 15 year career.

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Yeah, because Cena going an hour would be just AWFUL.

 

Not that it will be Cena/HBK, of course, but I dont doubt it will be a good match. People have been sh*tting on Cena/Orton for months now and yet they've delivered on PPV every time. Although the problem isnt them having a bad Iron Man at all, but rather the fact that its their 735th match. Which I do agree with, they desperately need something new.

 

 

You don't doubt? Frankly you should.

 

A/There is nothing new they can do now.

 

B/Neither man has a big enough moveset to make an hour long match last. Not even with 2354 shortcuts.

 

No, by no means am I saying this will be a bad match, but it could be, could go either way, I really don't see how it can be more than average.

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A/There is nothing new they can do now.

 

B/Neither man has a big enough moveset to make an hour long match last. Not even with 2354 shortcuts.

 

No, by no means am I saying this will be a bad match, but it could be, could go either way, I really don't see how it can be more than average.

 

a) How do you know that? Not trying to be smart, but I mean...yeah. They havent had an arena-wide brawl yet, and since thats the direction they were going in, I'd say that would be something different, at least, off the top of my head.

 

b) Cena has already gone for an hour just fine. And generally nobody has a moveset designed for an hour, because nobody ever wrestles for an hour. They will manage, just like everyone else who has ever had an Iron Man has managed. And having the gimmicks will probably help too.

 

I'm not saying it WILL be great, who knows, they might have reached their limit and going for an hour definitely will be a challenge. And I dont begrudge anyone who is sick of seeing them wrestling each other for the billionth time. I just dont understand people still going on and on about how bad the match itself will be, just like before the last PPV and the one before that. It really puzzles me since they've been having nothing but good matches so far.

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a) How do you know that? Not trying to be smart, but I mean...yeah. They havent had an arena-wide brawl yet, and since thats the direction they were going in, I'd say that would be something different, at least, off the top of my head.

 

b) Cena has already gone for an hour just fine. And generally nobody has a moveset designed for an hour, because nobody ever wrestles for an hour. They will manage, just like everyone else who has ever had an Iron Man has managed. And having the gimmicks will probably help too.

 

I'm not saying it WILL be great, who knows, they might have reached their limit and going for an hour definitely will be a challenge. And I dont begrudge anyone who is sick of seeing them wrestling each other for the billionth time. I just dont understand people still going on and on about how bad the match itself will be, just like before the last PPV and the one before that. It really puzzles me since they've been having nothing but good matches so far.

 

Well it's all apples and oranges as we say, meaning some like one and some like the other. Their matches frankly did nothing for me other than made me bored. Sure they were ok matches, but nothing we have not seen a million times before. They followed the pattern of every match involving Cena and or Orton that I have ever seen.

 

Also I would strongly suggest the HIAC match was a waste of a gimmick, that match could have easily being a cage, streetfight, last man standing ect, ect. The cell really didnt play a role important enough to justify it's use.

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Yeah, Cena not seeming to give a sh*t about losing is a really, really bad idea. He does it a lot actually (I remember a really blatant example, he came out and basically did say 'Well we had a good match so who cares?', but even worse than today) and its terrible. At times they seem to get the right balance of happy and serious with Cena, but then they do things like this which make him look like a total joke. Frustrating.
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Swagger has always been worthless with his spasticated entrance fit, I've said from the beginning he is an overrated piece of crap just as I said about Kennedy when people were cumming all over themselves because he said his surname twice with a pause...load of sh*t!

 

Kofi is one of the few younger guys who the fans are really into and he gets nothing to work with at all.

 

Ridiculous.

 

As for Cena, its probably hard for him to legit give a toss about losing the belt, he knows he will get it back 17 times before Christmas.

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B/Neither man has a big enough moveset to make an hour long match last. Not even with 2354 shortcuts.

And HHH had?

 

Swagger has always been worthless with his spasticated entrance fit, I've said from the beginning he is an overrated piece of crap just as I said about Kennedy when people were cumming all over themselves because he said his surname twice with a pause...load of sh*t!

Did you not see Swaggers' matches with Christain back when he was booked properly?

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The only issue with Cena/Orton is will the crowd care for an hour?

 

I mean with Bret/Shawn that match had been brewing for like nearly 4 years, Rock/HHH was in the midst of excellent ratings and buyrates, not to mention a HBK return and a great feud, while even Angle/Lesnar was a big climax to their feud and with 2 super workers.

 

Cena/Orton have the potential to have a great match it's just do people care? I mean it's the 4th straight PPV match (and they've had loads before then anyway) and they've been built around major stories and stalling.

 

So what can they do know which they haven't done? Arena wide brawl is fine but they won't do that for an hour. Essentially their previous 4 matches would have needed to be the screwjob one first, arena wide brawl second and then a brutal bloody cell match third.

 

Then you can use the pacing from their I Quit match in the 2nd half if the iron man, coupled with the 2nd half of their cell match. Where as now if they have an iron man match, you're basically asking them to repeat that sort of pace and drama and will the crowd care when they've already seen it?

 

I mean this is 2009 where we got a lot of quiet crowds once the entrance dies down and they bored pretty easily.

 

It's going to be real tough for them I think as nobody cares who wins as they've swapped victories so often and ultimately it's their 4th match in a row. If they do it, it's going to have to be one of the top matches of the last 5 years, because of those facts.

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What is her finisher anyway? And since when as has Layla had a 15 year career?

 

Its a neckbreaker where she falls to her knees, and I was joking.

 

And Jung I agree completely, I really dont think anyone could possibly give a crap. Its almost a shame, since they have had two good matches already and I expect them to have another good one here. But its just impossible to get into it because they've been going again and again and again.

 

I think especially, as you said, they've already done a lot with the I Quit and HIAC matches, they've already done a screwjob, it will be almost impossible to really do anything that seems fresh at this point. Like I said, at least being able to go around the arena will be different, but yeah.

 

I think if it was a different time and people werent so burnt out by Cena and Orton it would come across a LOT better.

 

And for me personally, I couldnt give the slightest sh*t about their feud, but I can still enjoy their matches regardless. So I'm good.

 

And at Nem, I think since the football is so big, the Raw number is in fact pretty good. Like you said, this game broke records, and Raw went up 0.2. So thats something, although I think its more that 3.1 was unusually low due to the Reverend.

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Indeed, against a 14.2 it wasn't a terrible number but I would think WWE would have been looking to possibly take some of the NFL viwers, otherwise why go for Big Ben as guest host since outside football he is not that well known I don't think (someone correct me on that?) which it seems didn't happen (I assume that the .2 were just regular viwers comming back after skipping Rev Sharpton)

 

I am suprised the Vikings vs Packers did a huge number like that though.

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