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Define a 'worker'.


Naitch
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The term 'worker' is a kind of generalised phrase thrown around often on forums and whatnot but does it have a specific definition? How does one determine who is a good or bad 'worker'?

 

I've seen people like Steamboat, Windham, Flair et al be labelled as 'workers' because they could wrestle for an hour and have great matches against pretty much anyone. They get labelled as having tremendous 'workrate' and stuff too and were viewed as absolute workhorses of performers with tremendous conditioning who worked hard every single night.

 

But then I've seen a guy like Hulk Hogan be described as a great 'worker'. He's a guy who couldn't wrestle and have great 40 minute matches like a Ricky Steamboat or whoever could every night, he'd, more often than not, go maybe 10 minutes and wasn't killing himself every night but he had THE most over matches on the card, made the most money and most of the people were there to see him. If you look at wrestling for what it is - a work - whereby the number one goal is to work the people, get them into the building and get them spending their money then isn't Hulk Hogan a great 'worker' by the very criteria of what professional wrestling is? Bobby Heenan for instance maintains that Hogan is the greatest worker of all time because wrestling is a business and it's about making and drawing money.

 

Terry Funk also pitches the question to no one in particular on one of his shoot interviews about who really are the great workers in history. Is it a guy like Funk himself or Harley Race who beat the sh*t out of themselves for 30 years or is it a Dusty Rhodes or a Hulk Hogan who didn't do as much but earned all the money?

 

Can both sides of the coin be described as 'workers'?

 

EDIT - Some of the examples of wrestlers I've mentioned are just generalised examples and don't begin to tell the whole story but I'm just throwing them out there anyway.

Edited by Naitch
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Hogan is the greatest worker of all time. He made a career on giving people hardly anything, wrestling-wise, but still was the most popular guy in history and made the most money.

 

A great worker is a guy who understands the business, both inside and outside the ring, and can control the people and his own career. It has f*ck all to do with doing silly little stupid somersaults and chain wrestling for 16 hours, 12 nights a week brother!

 

If you know how to work the people, you are the man. Examples of people these days who can work include the following:

 

1.

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Hogan is the greatest worker of all time. He made a career on giving people hardly anything, wrestling-wise, but still was the most popular guy in history and made the most money.

 

A great worker is a guy who understands the business, both inside and outside the ring, and can control the people and his own career. It has f*ck all to do with doing silly little stupid somersaults and chain wrestling for 16 hours, 12 nights a week brother!

 

If you know how to work the people, you are the man. Examples of people these days who can work include the following:

 

1.

 

Raven,

 

a worker makes a crowd care either to cheer them or to boo them they work a crowd this can be done in front of any crowd of any size.

 

there are many qualities that can make up a good worker IMHO.

 

* mic skills

* in ring work

* gimmick.

 

 

It has f*ck all to do with doing silly little stupid somersaults and chain wrestling for 16 hours, 12 nights a week brother!

 

i agree and disagree with this statement, because you can be a good worker and do that style too HBK is an example of this.

 

Hogan is a great worker because he can hide is limited in ring ability (i know he can be good but that like 1% of his career)with his gimmick and is proformance which draws the fans in

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i agree and disagree with this statement, because you can be a good worker and do that style too HBK is an example of this.
Shawn Michaels isnt a good worker due to the flip-flop crap. Take those arial moves out of his arsenal (which he pretty much has done now for the most part) and he is still just as good, because he knows how to work and it has nothing to do with that part of his 'move-set' (I despise that term, really).

 

Shawn is a top line worker because he know his way around the ring and knows when and when not to do this and that, has a pretty firm grasp on psychology (when he wants to have, at least) and knows how to work behind the scenes too.

 

Take the lucha guys, they are shoddy workers. A spot monkey is a spot monkey because he cant work.

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Shawn Michaels isnt a good worker due to the flip-flop crap. Take those arial moves out of his arsenal (which he pretty much has done now for the most part) and he is still just as good, because he knows how to work and it has nothing to do with that part of his 'move-set' (I despise that term, really).

 

that isn't excalty what i said, i said is a good worker and can do that style not because of.

 

A spot monkey is a spot monkey because he cant work.

 

i think you can be look at Chris Daniels he can work and does that style, AJ is improving at working with his heel turn this year. But guys like sonjay i would agree they can't currently work, but it doesn't mean they can add it to there ability, i wager it will come with age when they can't do as much

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that isn't excalty what i said, i said is a good worker and can do that style not because of.
I think you are missing my point. HBK doing that somersault garbage doesnt have anything to do with him being a good worker, thats why I'm disputing why you even mentioned his name. Its alot of other things he does that makes him a good worker, the high flying nonsense really has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

Give me an example of a guy who's style is predominantly high-flying/cruiserweight kinda deal who is a good worker.

 

i think you can be look at Chris Daniels he can work and does that style, AJ is improving at working with his heel turn this year. But guys like sonjay i would agree they can't currently work, but it doesn't mean they can add it to there ability, i wager it will come with age when they can't do as much
AJ Styles cant work for beans, he stinks. He does things for no specific reason other than to do them. I cant stand him. Daniels is much better, because he seems to do things that fit and for a reason. Thats working. Style's is so overrated its incredible.

 

That being said, I havent seen much of Styles for a couple years, so my opinion might be outdated.

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That being said, I havent seen much of Styles for a couple years, so my opinion might be outdated.

 

his work as a heel is better, he does a more slower style.

 

Give me an example of a guy who's style is predominantly high-flying/cruiserweight kinda deal who is a good worker.

 

eddie. although he too slowed down a bit

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To me, worker is simply "wrestler", not a specefic kind, but just anyone. Saying someone is a good wrestler, to me, refers to their skill in grappling form, whereas saying someone is a good worker is saying that that someone is good in however they go about their job.

 

EDIT: Oh, and Belty, Danielson definitely works a cruiserweight style, and I'm fairly sure you respect his skillz.

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Yeah Eddie was a decent worker, although I'd not put him in the category of guys who I find it hard to consider good workers, mainly the masked guys like Rey, Juvi, Psychosis, Hayabusa and so on.

 

Plus, I dont think there is a wrestler in any lucha fed who can work, straight up.

 

to be fair, its a different type of wrestling and in japan its more of a sport to them than about working a crowd a japanese crowd respects the in ring work and making it look as real as possible is more important to them. well that s how i see it anyway

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As I say, if you go by the criteria that because wrestling is a 'work' and it's about drawing people in, aren't the better luchadores great 'workers' because they can do just that? That style of wrestling is traditional in Mexico, it's what the fans want to see and if the great high fliers are drawing the people to the building and having the most over matches on the card, aren't they great 'workers' in that particular environment/country?

 

By that same token, Abdullah the Butcher was never the greatest 'wrestler' in the world, yet he's a big star in Japan and yet all he ever really did was spike people and look crazy. Ditto someone like the Sheik who's a legend over there but didn't 'wrestle' like Kobashi or someone. Aren't they, then, great 'workers' because they were 'working' the people and making them buy into their character?

 

It does just kinda prove the point that there isn't a concrete definition or criteria for what a great 'worker' is. It's a very generalised, sweeping kind of term.

Edited by Naitch
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Realy? AmDrag always works (whenever I have seen him) a submissions style, more based on puro then the cruiser style.

 

His style is very un-puro, which is why the Japanese crowds haven't especially taken to him(although they do respect him), but NOAH continues to bring him over to work with their jr's. He's a submission based wrestler, but he's very much so a cruiser in general behavior against proper heavyweight opponents.

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His style is very un-puro, which is why the Japanese crowds haven't especially taken to him(although they do respect him), but NOAH continues to bring him over to work with their jr's. He's a submission based wrestler, but he's very much so a cruiser in general behavior against proper heavyweight opponents.

 

personally from what i have seen i would say he is more of a technical wrestler, he seems to hard hitting and not enough flip floping to be a cruiser

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I think that being able to tell a story,protect yourself and your opponent (of course accidents can and will happen now and then that are simply freakish acts of nature) and keep the crowd interested (because they don't always need to be chanting like mad or jumping up and down).

 

That to me is what a worker should be.

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EDIT: Oh, and Belty, Danielson definitely works a cruiserweight style, and I'm fairly sure you respect his skillz.
I have never seen Danielson work a typical cruiserweight style. I've not seen every match he's been in (far from it; I've seen about 40 of his matches), but in the ones I did see, I'd say he wrestled a technical style that was geared towards working the crowd to hate him ("I've got 'til five" - "Nobody tells me how to wrestle" - etc).

 

He does one high-flying move (that I have seen); the diving headbutt, and he also does a suicide-dive between the ropes. That, to me, doesn't make a cruiserweight style wrestler.

to be fair, its a different type of wrestling and in japan its more of a sport to them than about working a crowd a japanese crowd respects the in ring work and making it look as real as possible is more important to them. well that s how i see it anyway
Japanese wrestlers work the crowd just as much as wrestlers in the US, they just go about it in their own way.

 

EDIT - As for myself, a great worker is someone who can get the fans to believe in them and what they are doing. A great worker can toy with the fans emotions and take them on the journey with them. Austin v Bret from Wrestlemania 13 is a fantastic example of two great workers taking the fans with them, as is HHH v HBK from Summerslam 2002.

 

It has little to do with moves (either how many or how well they're done) and everything to do with connecting to the masses.

Edited by DC
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I think you are missing my point. HBK doing that somersault garbage doesnt have anything to do with him being a good worker, thats why I'm disputing why you even mentioned his name. Its alot of other things he does that makes him a good worker, the high flying nonsense really has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

Give me an example of a guy who's style is predominantly high-flying/cruiserweight kinda deal who is a good worker.

 

I think what TWP was trying to say is that a cruiser/high-flying style doesnt automatically disqualify you from being a good worker, in the same way that it doesnt automatically make you a good worker either. Its all about working the crowd, but some people can do that working the high-risk style, the same with practically any other style.

 

And although you've already mentioned him, I'll say Rey Mysterio in answer to your question.

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Working basically means the ability to wrestle, to understand wrestling psychology and to convince the audience to an extent that they suspend belief and go along with the story that is being told.

 

It's loosely used nowadays, use to describe anyone who steps into the ring.

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It's loosely used nowadays, use to describe anyone who steps into the ring.
I agree; with some of the guys (and girls) who step through the ropes, you sometimes wonder if they've ever even seen a wrestling ring before.
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I think what TWP was trying to say is that a cruiser/high-flying style doesnt automatically disqualify you from being a good worker, in the same way that it doesnt automatically make you a good worker either. Its all about working the crowd, but some people can do that working the high-risk style, the same with practically any other style.

 

And although you've already mentioned him, I'll say Rey Mysterio in answer to your question.

I understand what he was saying, but seeing as the style of wrestling you work and the amount of moves you do mean very little as to whether you are a good worker or not, I still dont see why Shawn was brought up. I didnt say the cruiser stuff kills your ability to work, I just said the cruiser/lucha guys are usually prime examples of people who cant, because they put too much emphasis and time into getting the occasional "Ohhhhh" from the crowd that they dont seem to see the pic picture.

 

And really, Rey Mysterio a good worker? I cant agree with that. Infact, he is a crap worker. He doesnt manipulate the crowd, he doesnt 'have' them, he just does one dodgy looking acrobatic stupid crap after another. Guy couldnt work if he tried.

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In Britain its an art,

In Japan its a sport,

In Mexico its a religion,

In America its a joke.

 

 

I cant remember where I read that, but it always summed it up for me. Though I like jokes. ;)

 

See, unfortunately the version I read was:

In Japan its a sport,

In Mexico its a religion,

In America its a business.

In Canada its an art,

In Britain its a joke.

 

Not quite so up-beat :(

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