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Chris Benoit found dead


Cathal
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I love the fact that Benoit is a murdering C**t has provoked yet another argument/denialfest regarding steroids in the WWE. Everyone goes on about the media's perception and subsequent crucifixion of the "sport" yet you're all at it yourselves. Wrestlers use steroids, it's a fact, nobody gives a flying s**t how right about actual names any of you are. It's not even relevant, neither is it the most appropriate discussion for this forum. Unless, that is, one of you geniuses want to outline how roid rage or even roid use to develop a physique causes a man to tie up his partner, place his knee on her back and suffocate her before then moving on to a 7 year old child.
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I love the fact that Benoit is a murdering C**t has provoked yet another argument/denialfest regarding steroids in the WWE. Everyone goes on about the media's perception and subsequent crucifixion of the "sport" yet you're all at it yourselves. Wrestlers use steroids, it's a fact, nobody gives a flying s**t how right about actual names any of you are. It's not even relevant, neither is it the most appropriate discussion for this forum. Unless, that is, one of you geniuses want to outline how roid rage or even roid use to develop a physique causes a man to tie up his partner, place his knee on her back and suffocate her before then moving on to a 7 year old child.

 

Isnt that being slightly condescending? There maybe be absoloutley no link whatsoever, but why should that stop people debating the fact that there *could* be a link, and the use of Steroids, and who/who isnt on them?

 

I agree the link was forcibly made by the likes of Fox with regards the media coverage, but the fact that the link has been made, should mean people are free to discuss this on the forum, right?

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Right so the stuff I say is opinion, but the stuff you say (which has as much evidence as me) is fact? Right...ok

 

Yes, because if you read my post, you see actual evidence. Like pics of non-roided guys who are bigger than Benoit. That's actual evidence to support my claim.

 

Saying "wrestlers would laugh at you if you don't agree with me" is not evidence.

 

By all means carry on believing Lashley isn't on roids. But try tell that to any respected wrestler writer in the world like say Dave Meltzer and he'd laugh at you. Heck try telling any WWE wrestler that and they'll laugh at you. I'm sorry if I don't possess a urine sample for you, but these are respected writers and guys like Meltzer are rarely wrong. Go ask Dynamite Kid if Lashley is on roids, I'm pretty sure he'd know a lot more about that than all of us.

 

See, this is what's known as opinion. You can't say for sure that wrestlers would laugh at me, you're just making up random nonsense to back up your points. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe some would say they've seen him take it, or maybe some would say they're 100% sure Lashley's never touched the stuff in his life. YOU DON'T KNOW, therefore it's not evidence.

 

As for Dynamite Kid, how would he know anything about Lashley? He could have told you about Benoit MAYBE, cause they have similar physiques.

 

Lashley could have been that big for the past 5 years, just from working out, since he was in the armed forces. Or maybe Lashley was the size of the Miz last year, and took enough roids to turn a pig into an elephant. The point is, you can't say for sure, so don't expect people to accept it as truth.

 

Plus all of those guys you showed from UFC are nowhere near as ripped as Benoit. Good physiques sure, but compare them to Benoit or even a Lashley, it's not even in the same league.

 

All of those guys were more defined than Benoit. Some of them were smaller, sure, but some of them were bigger. Surely this highlights the point that some guys are just bigger than others? Are you saying that last guys is obviously on roids, just cause he's significantly bigger than most other UFC guys?

 

If not, why is Lashley automatically on roids because he's bigger than most WWE guys?

 

So as I said my opinion is based on reading hundreds and thousands of interviews with ex-wrestlers and reports by respected writers in the industry. What's yours based on? Your own ignorant belief, that a big guy can't possibly be on roids?

 

You've read "thousands" of interviews with wrestlers? Wow, that must cover a lot of years and a lot of feds, unless EVERY single WWE wrestler for the past 25 years wrote one?

 

Either way, what does stories from ex-wrestlers have to do with what goes on today? 20 years ago, maybe everyone was on roids in WWF, whereas now there's a much bigger spotlight on it, as well as random testing and the wellness policy.

 

Oh look, back to the insults I see. I never said a big guy can't be on roids, I said just because he's big doesn't prove anything. Why is that so hard to accept? You didn't answer whether Big Show was on roids to get so big?

 

If that number of people talk about major roid problems in wrestling, don't you think its probably true? I mean you've read all the promos recently from guys like Bret, Warrior, Hogan, Jericho, etc etc about roid problems. Does that not compute with you? Why is it so hard for you to believe a lot of WWE guys are on the gas?

 

No, I've not read all the promos from those guys about roid problems in wrestling, although I doubt any of them actually made any remarks about anyone other than Benoit, or said anything about current steroid usage.

 

There's a possibility that a lot of them are on roids, but there's also many other possibilities, many of which are far more likely (legal supplements etc). Why should I beleive a load of guys are damaging themselves and doing something illegal with NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE, when they could just be using legal supplements and working out a lot?

 

If so many were on the gas, why isn't the wellness policy catching every guy they test?

 

I'm still to here even two names of people who've been caught, where are they, if everyone's taking them?

 

If I live in denial, then well so does 3/4 of the wrestling industry who agree with me and wrestlers and reporters who could pee all over your argument in a second.

 

Ha ha, another great fact there - a random number you just pulled out of your arse to try to support you argument!! :lol

 

If I said 200 wrestlers had personally told me that no guy other than Benoit ever touched steroids, would that make it a fact just cause I said it? But there's 200 of them! And they all agree! How can it not be true!

 

That's what your argument sounds like.

 

 

You haven't any facts neither buddy just your opinion and delusion. But as I said go ask Dynamite Kid, or in fact pretty much every British wrestler you can find, and they'll tell you Lashley is on the roids. Go on I bet you.

 

Pictures of big guys - fact

Wellness policy, with no known failures apart from Orton - fact

People can attain physiques through perfectly legal means - fact

 

Well there's 3 facts that I have which make it perfectly possible that no guys are on roids. Now I'm not saying that's the case, but my facts prove it's possible. Now where are your facts that some ARE on roids?

 

And I don't mean "ask wrestlers" that's just nonsense cause a) it's not possible, and b) that'd be opinion.

 

I want actual hard facts that "a lot of the WWE wrestlers" are on roids.

 

Ed

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I'm not gonna bother answering you anymore cause you live in denial and at this rate we are gonna get Gonad fired before he bangs his head into the wall with frustration.

 

Believe what you want Ed. I just feel sorry for you that you're so unbelievably deluded and that Vince McMahon and the WWE in this modern age could never put a foot wrong.

 

You live in a dream world and refuse to accept reality. So yeah I give up your a lost cause.

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If you can find those facts I'd love to read them, but he's given as much evidence as everybody else. Its just his opinion to him is considered as fact. Thus I give in, as similar to Nicole's Opinion thread, he won't ever contemplate the wonderful Vince McMahon and the fantastic Bobby Lashley ever doing anything wrong.

 

But I've given in so I should shush.

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If you can find those facts I'd love to read them, but he's given as much evidence as everybody else. Its just his opinion to him is considered as fact. Thus I give in, as similar to Nicole's Opinion thread, he won't ever contemplate the wonderful Vince McMahon and the fantastic Bobby Lashley ever doing anything wrong.

 

But I've given in so I should shush.

 

You've given in cause you arguement holds about as much water as shopping trolley.

 

I've blatantly given you several facts at the end of my last post, how many have you given? Zero!

 

Ed

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Pictures of big guys - fact

Wellness policy, with no known failures apart from Orton - fact

People can attain physiques through perfectly legal means - fact

 

Well there's 3 facts that I have which make it perfectly possible that no guys are on roids. Now I'm not saying that's the case, but my facts prove it's possible. Now where are your facts that some ARE on roids?

 

Just in case you're having problems spotting those facts. I know you're not used to them!! :lol :lol

 

Ed

Edited by Ed_666
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Lashley, Khali, Mercury, Batista, among others have failed the test....FACT!

 

Don't forget, two of the greatest wrestling champions ever will be on Larry King Live tonight, also appearing will be Cena.

 

If anyone knows of a live link, paste it here please!

Edited by Dave7g
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guys like Meltzer are rarely wrong

 

I think in relative terms youre right, i.e in comparison to other writers he is msot often "right". But surely you cant say "he's rarely wrong" with regards to everything as if you look back at some observers and listen to his interviews and when he tells people what the next angles are etc he is frequently wrong.

 

Unless of course you mean only in relation to knowing who's on steriods etc

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Its going to be quite embarassing to see Cena spew all the WWE company lines while Jericho and possibly Hart put him in his place. I feel quite bad for Cena, he HAS to toe that company line even though its obvious nonsense.

 

Yep, poor Cena may very well be the Corporate Puppet tonight. :(

 

Poor guy.

 

Should be interesting to see anyway.

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People can attain physiques through perfectly legal means - fact
He's not wrong here. I myself attained a physique through legal means, as did John F. Kennedy, Jesus Christ, Adolf Hitler and Sarah Jessica Parker.

 

Lashley, Khali, Mercury, Batista, among others have failed the test....FACT!
Ah yes, let's not forget the famed "liver enzymes" epidemic.
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See, you just proved my point for me!!! Rooney is naturally big. Does that mean he's on steroids?! No!! So why assume every big guy in WWE is on them?

 

Of course it doesn't mean Rooney is on steroids but that is a totally different context. He is well built for a fit and reasonably normal human being.

 

The point I was making is that you seem to be saying that because Lashley and Lesnar are taller than Benoit that that somehow makes them naturally big. My point is that you seem to be saying that if there were no steroids being taken by anyone that Lashley or Lesnar would be automatically bigger than Benoit and it seems to be all down to their height. Just because someone is taller than someone else doesn't mean they are naturally bigger. That was the point I was making with regard to me and Rooney.

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Larry King Live is on the International CNN feed now....

 

Really, really interesting.....especially the analogy between WWE and a Die Hard Movie!

 

The Panel is Cena, Jericho (with short hair) DiBiase, Blackman and Bret Hart via Satellite

Repeated tomorrow at 10am for those who missed it (I think...)
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So what did they all talk about? As I haven't watched it.

 

Obviously not the drug problem, cause we all know there isn't one and drugs have never been used in WWE since 1988.

 

But no seriously, anyone want to recap or link to somewhere which did recap?

 

EDIT: Found one at the Torch. Seemed a little bland to me, everybody towing the company line. Didn't learn anything new, just hearing how out of character it was for Benoit. To be honest they did well distancing steroids from the murder, cause chances are they are not linked in the slightest. However steroids is clearly still an issue in wrestling.

Edited by Jung
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EDIT: Found one at the Torch. Seemed a little bland to me, everybody towing the company line. Didn't learn anything new, just hearing how out of character it was for Benoit. To be honest they did well distancing steroids from the murder, cause chances are they are not linked in the slightest. However steroids is clearly still an issue in wrestling.

 

The extent that Jericho towed a company line, to me signals a return is imminent

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