Crowd Makes The Match- An Experiment

[Guest Jung]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdr_the-rock-vs-hulk-hogan - The Rock v Hulk Hogan

 

http://joycomplex.vodpod.com/pod/show_video/30688?sort=popularity - The Ultimate Warrior v Hulk Hogan

 

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=2020388934 John Cena v Rob Van Dam

 

Right three matches you can all watch and vote.

 

The subject is "Matches made by the crowd" Which is your favourite and why?

 

Lets see if this works eh?

[King 277]

Gotta say Rock Vs Hogan.

 

If I was to put a few more in maybe,

 

Goldberg Vs Raven

Goldberg Vs Hogan

Goldberg Vs Brock(for all the wrong reasons)

[Guest SuperKick Kid]

Having watched all three, here are my thoughts and on the subject of Crowd makes a match too.

 

For me, it takes more than the crowd to make the match in terms of comparing these matches with great responses from the audience.

 

In my opinion, Hogan vs Rock is the best out of these three. It had the best reaction combined with great psychology from both and it told a great story.

 

Warrior vs Hogan tried to tell that same story except that I think Hogan vs Rock told it much better thanks to the part of The Rock.

 

In terms of Crowd reaction, I liked the fact that Rock got booed and there were audilble "Rocky Sucks" chants. That combined with Hogan totally feeding off the crowd just made this match one of the best ever.

[The Icon 152]

Cena vs RVD was the best match to watch of the three, and it's 50% thanks to the crowd. (The other 50 being the wrestlers naturally.)

[Guest Kanenite]

I'd go for Cena vs RVD. My reasoning is that Rock vs Hogan and Hogan vs Warrior were always going to be huge and on paper they look amazing, no matter the crowd reaction even though it makes a match more enjoyable they would still be great just to see them facing off. The crowd could've been dire and them 2 matches would probably still go down as 2 of the Greatest matches to just experience.

 

John Cena vs RVD on the other hand wasn't looked at by me or many others as a huge match on paper, but when it was time the crowd actually made the match. The match itself wasn't great but the experience of seeing the crowd and their reactions were amazing.

[Guest dpddave]

My favourite is warrior vs Hogan.

 

In the Cena vs RVD match the crowd is 100% behind the face RVD. Cena played heel is that match.

 

In Rock vs Hogan the crowd is mostly behind the heel in Hogan.

 

Where as at WM6 the crowd was really spilt 50/50. Its so rare that a crowd is that closely spilt which is what makes it the best IMO

[Guest The Beltster]

Hogan vs Warrior. Greatest match in the history of wrestling. Ever.

 

And the crowd wasnt 50/50, listen to the pop for Warrior and when Hogan comes out listen to it get twice as loud! They popped for Warriors win but Hogan was the more over of the two.

[Guest FreeSpirit]

When it comes to crowd making a match, out of the three I would go for Rock Vs Hogan, because the other two crowd reactions were at least expected.

 

Rock went into the match at WM18 as the babyface, and Hogan as the heel and yet Hogan probably got one of the loudest most positive reactions I've ever heard from a supposed heel, while Rock was mercilessly booed out of the building.

[DC 536]

Hogan vs Warrior. Greatest match in the history of wrestling. Ever.

 

And the crowd wasnt 50/50, listen to the pop for Warrior and when Hogan comes out listen to it get twice as loud! They popped for Warriors win but Hogan was the more over of the two.

I have to agree with Beltmark here. The fans popped a lot louder for Hogan coming out than for Warrior.

 

I think crowd reaction can play a part in any match seeming better than it was, or elevating it to a level above where is should be. The HiaC between 'Taker and Mankind is a good example of this. Listen to the straight-pop when Mankind is thrown from the cell.

[Guest The Genetic Jackhammer]

For me it has to be Hogan v Rock. The crowd where f'n awesome and made the match 10 times better than it was (an it was a good match regardless). I also loved the Cena V RVD match especially when Cena kept getting his t-shirt thrown back at him from the crowd.

[Guest dpddave]

I didnt think Hogan VS Rock was that good of a match to be honest....some of Hogan offfense looked really weak during it...The crowd really made it what it was.

[DC 536]

I also loved the Cena V RVD match especially when Cena kept getting his t-shirt thrown back at him from the crowd.

I love how everyone gives credit to the New York crowd for that moment, when it's blatently obvious it was Cena playing the fans, not the other way round.

[Guest Slim Jim]

Well the guy who threw it back in the first place deserves some credit.

 

I'd have kept it and flogged it on ebay.

[Guest Twig]

I really like the premise of this thread. I've always loved a great crowd, who's not only involved with the match, but comminucative as well. This topic makes me judge the matches in a much different way than I normally would. I'm going go to judging it based upon how much better the match was to watch, with as little to do with the wrestling skill, and ringwork outside of how they react with the crowd.

 

The crowd was crazy for Rock/Hogan. The sound on dailymotion was a little behind the video, but the Rock wasn't totally devoid of cheers. It was interesting in that face superstar vs face legendary superstar reaction they each got. It gave me the impression that a lot of the people there were huge Rock fans, but just liked Hogan more. I liked how Hogan and Rock each used the negative heat for Rock to turn the tide of the match, and that was really cool.

 

Hogan Warrior had that same vibe of Warrior having support, but people still not booing for anything hogan does. Maybe it was my sound, but other than the slight differentiation witht he crowd, I don't theink that they really made that match much better than it already was.

 

When you step back and look at RVD vs John Cena the crowd reaction really isn't that different from their normal dynamic with the wreslters in the ring. They love one, and hate the other. Now the ECW crowd was not only vocal, but bustd out many and varried chants which they communicated to the wreslters in the ring. As far as interaction went, John Cena played an interesting role. Throwing his shirt back into the crowd found him not even the tiniest semblance of support anywhere in the building. I was surprised when Cena jumped off the turnbuckles to the outside in response to the crowd's "Same old $#!+" chant. The crowd really upped the ante of this match when it's taken into consideration that their position was based on a rejection of what they saw as poor booking and the deterioration of the product they love by the company Cena's representing.

 

I also think that Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi deserves at least an honorable mention. The crowd were 100% behind both men, and it made the incredible match absolutely captivating.

 

Weigning all the options, an doing my best to ignore personal taste, I'm gonna say that the "crowd made" Hulk Hogan vs The Rock more than the other two.

 

In the Cena vs RVD match the crowd is 100% behind the face RVD. Cena played heel is that match.

 

I would actually say that the crowd played heel, and Cena wasn't just going to sit back and take it. I mean they were cussing him out, completely unprovoked.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Twig

[Guest Jung]

So what do we think then people of having access to these matches to make everythign impartial?

 

It make discussions easier or more well rounded?

[Guest The Genetic Jackhammer]

I love how everyone gives credit to the New York crowd for that moment, when it's blatently obvious it was Cena playing the fans, not the other way round.

 

 

I dont really care because either way I loved it :P

[Guest Twig]

I love how everyone gives credit to the New York crowd for that moment, when it's blatently obvious it was Cena playing the fans, not the other way round.

 

That match was a two way street between Cena and the fans. John played off the crowd well, but they initiated it, and kept it fresh. It was more than just booing John offence and cheering RVD, even though the back and forth punches was really enhanced by it. It was Cena pulling out an aerial move when the fans were telling him that all he was doing was the "same old S**8." It was the Cena F'ed up chant at that messy moment in the ropes. The crowd really helped to make that match, and in all matches made by crowds, you need the wrestlers to react and interact with the fans to actually allow the crowd to make the match.

[Fidel Cashflow 130]

I don't think the crowd has done more for a single match than Joe v Kobashi. As far as entrances go, they pop much larger for Kobashi (but come on, it's Kobashi), but in the match, they're blowing the lid off the place for both men equally.

 

Watching those three on mute, the one I enjoyed most was Rock v Hogan, with Hogan v Warrior third. I was lucky enough to watch Hogan v Warrior without knowing the result a few years ago, as well as Warrior v Savage, and enjoyed Warrior v Savage more.

 

Really, I think the only thing I didn't like about Hogan-Savage was how Hogan completely no-sold the finish, throwing Warrior off of him. On one hand it's great as Warrior had just enough to put away a Hulked-up Hulkster, but on the other, it made him look more like an oppurtunitist than the new man.

 

And as stated, the crowd is easily behind Hulk more, so insteand of the great dynamics of the other two, it's huge pop v even bigger pop.

[Guest The Great Ahmar]

Hogan/Warrior does nothing for me. Maybe because I didn't watch it live, I dunno. Hogan/Rock was great mainly due to the crowd. Although I think No Way Out 2003 was a better wrestling match 'Mania 18 will be remembered for the face off were the crowd is having a orgasm.

 

I voted Cena/RVD purely due to my love for the ECW crowds. Cena did play for the crowd so well. After the crowd threw the T-Shirt back he could have just forgot about, yet he dragged a good 2 or 3 minutes out of it. You rarely see a wrestler play a crowd to piss them off and get them involved even more before the match these days. Wrestling wise? It was solid enough for me to enjoy.

 

Crowds do make a match. ROH's can be annoying when they use the "This is Awesome" over little things (More so with TNA) and Chanting "ROH" which I ****ing detest. The same with TNA its used so much, so one chops someone "This is awesome" When someone goes through a table its "TNATNATNA". That's probably the one thing I begrudge against the ECW crowd making chanting the companies name so common.

 

Also I hate the Orlando fans. The people in the front row who seem to be their every taping and PPV are such dickheads. Their the sort of people that would probably push little kids out of the way just to get to ringside to be on camera. I hate when they dance, I hate when they chant "TNATNATNA", I hate when they chant "This is Awesome" Think of something new you fools. Most of them come off as "trying to get over" like the ECW fans did by standing out. Like that idiot who wore a towel on his head. I hate the Impact Zone. Ok I've gone a bit off-topic now.

 

ROH's fans do the same with the "this is awesome" with little things and "ROHROHROH" but they do have some fantastic chants. "**** him up Grandma" is my all time favourite. They do make the matches, The Two DG matches literally bought everyone to their feet and they were going nuts every time a move was hit and the "This is Awesome" Chant actually felt apporitate. There due chanting with CZW was great at Death Before Dishonor, it really made the Main Event even more special. And like what was said with Joe/Bashi, awesome, awesome crowd. Also they are quite witty, especially during more of the comedy matches.

[Dead Crow 370]

I voted Rock/Hogan. The match was pretty strong psychologically, but had very little workrate and was pretty much just The Rock carrying Hogan to something less than awful. The strength came from Hogan managing to work the fans and the crowd being damn hot anyway (and in fairness, the build up to the match was great), and it made a very poor match become something legendary that will be talked about for years.

 

Hogan/Warrior is pretty crap to be honest. It hasn't stood the test of time at all, but it had a little better workrate than Hogan/Rock did because both men were in their prime as opposed to just one. So I think it's more down to the individuals than the former.

 

Cena/RVD was pretty damn good on its own merits, to be honest. Cena post-WM21 doesn't have bad PPV matches unless his opponent(s) is the worst of the worst (and even then, he can usually drag good matches out of them). Sure, the crowd was hot, but had you taken them away, the action would have been your typical well-rounded upper-midcard match with only RVD's clumsyness and lazyness dragging it down.

 

So yeah, Rock/Hogan.

[Naitch 207]

(and in fairness, the build up to the match was great)

 

Was it though? All I remember about the build up was complete overkill and stupid stuff like Hogan hitting Rock with the smallest hammer in the world, 'vehicular homicide No. 18927633', Hogan saying 'Rock-a-Jabroni' (whatever the hell that is) 800 million times while committing said vehicular homicide and managing to sound more uncool than my old middle aged Physics teacher and Rock returning from death like a week later with taped ribs. All they really needed to sell that match was the staredown, get the image of Hogan and Rock face to face and kajing, instant money. They didn’t really need anything after that and everything else just seemed like ridiculous overkill to me. I don't think that big over the top thing really added any interest to the match, they could have announced the morning before on WWF.com, 'oh by the way, Hogan vs. Rock at Wrestlemania' and it'd have done as well.

[Dead Crow 370]

I generally consider the staredown and the lorry to be the ONLY build up to that feud :)

[Naitch 207]

Yeah the segment with the initial staredown was really nicely done with the split crowd and whatnot, but I just thought they didn't really need the whole lorry thing and Rock returning the next week like he stubbed his toe or something.

[Dead Crow 370]

They didn't need it, but it was a random thing to throw in. I enjoyed the surrealism of it all.

[Naitch 207]

I found the hammer thing to be even more surreal, it came to Vince in an acid induced dream or something. 'I know Hogan will go under the ring looking for something to knock Rock out with. A chair? Nah, too obvious. A sledgehammer? It's been done. He'll go into a tool box and get...maybe a wrench? Nah. A crowbar? Nah. THE SMALLEST HAMMER IN THE WORLD!'