Cruiser Division

[The Icon 152]

Yeah I know it's old hat to complain about the WWE's Cruiser division but somebody has too.

 

 

The Cruiserweight division is a joke right now, that's not exactly a secret. how can it be brought back to life? Well let's take a look.

 

First of all how exactly does a smaller man, not named Rey, get a push in WWE. Well if you are a WWE road agent you will inform any cruiserweight who asks that the following:

 

You would first tell them to have good matches, but in a WWE style. Then you would tell them to perform the current angle, mic work, feud etc as best they could. That of course is the predictable answer but no matter how hard they try to do this Cruisers still don’t get the pushes they deserve. Look at London and Kendrick, they were thrown together because the bookers couldn’t think of anything better to do with them. Fair enough they are making the most of this and are entertaining, just don’t expect the push to last long. Look at London’s last Cruiser tag team. Remember Kidman and London? They were thrown together too and giving the tag belts. Then for no reason they split and fought each other. Again fair enough they could have had a great feud. To a point they did, their match at No Mercy in 2004 was a classic. That was it though one match was the feud the next time we saw London he was jobbing on Velocity. Of course the winner of the No Mercy match Billy Kidman got a big push. Well almost he entered into a feud with Chavo Guerrero in late October 2004 over the cruiser title. Then they dropped the feud and crowned Funaki champ in a battle royal. That made one thing clear. WWE decided a surprise win was much more important than hard work and ability. (No offence to Funaki he is talented.)

 

The crowd of course didn’t give a damn about Funaki, indeed why should they. He went from being a whipping boy to a champ in mere weeks. There was no story line reason for the win. This happens a lot in WWE’s cruiser division. (Incidentally Chavo Guerrero had a fit backstage over this and attacked the Big Show. Why because Chavo felt Show who was getting a mega push ill deserved it while he Chavo should be Cruiser champ.)

 

Everybody knows, or should realise that these Cruisers can and often do have amazing matches. Well as amazing as you can be in the Five minutes or less they usually get. Never mind that though the important question is this. Can Cruisers affect PPV buy rates and Smackdown numbers? Can they actually draw in WWE in other words. The best, and I would say only, answer to that is yes. Look at ECW’s lucha division and WCW’s version of the Cruiser division. Why did they succeed because the cruisers were booked right that’s why. Better still look at Japan, and NJPW in particular. Remember Jushin Liger? Liger was used in such a way to hide his weaknesses (assuming he even had any). He was booked against wrestlers that worked a similar style. He was damn sure never jobbed out to the heavyweights. In fact the IWGP Junior title was just as important as the heavyweight version and was often booked in the main event above the HW title. This was accepted for one reason only, the title was respected and never treated like dirt.

 

Now back to Smackdown can you imagine The SD world champ fighting in the mid card and the Cruiser champ defending his crown in the main event. Of course you can’t and why would you. IF WWE put their mind to it and set aside Twelve months to book the Division like NJPW did there is no doubt it would succeed. That won’t happen though because cruisers are seldom allowed to perform to the best of their abilities in WWE. (Rey is booked as a heavyweight.) As long as WWE treats it’s cruiser division as something of an afterthought it and the title will remain a joke.

 

Cruisers often complain about the lack of pushes in private, and sometimes even in public online. That’s no solution though so what is?

 

 

Well it may be a bad idea considering the distinct lack of options these days but I think a stand is in order. What they should do is tell the bookers exactly what they think. A revolution might not get them anywhere but nowhere is still a step up for where they are now.

 

Um well since I’m running out of steam over to you.

[Guest HearnyIchiban]

The cruiserweights have always been unfavoured in the WWE, thats always been the case. Like you say they don't get enough chance to showcase their skills on Smackdown. Now I love the cruiserweights dont get be wrong, but if you took a random fan who is used to watching heavyweights and middle weights and then a cruiserweight comes on screen then why should the fan care about them. I think the answer to that is because they are not built up enough or showcased.

 

I feel that gradually they should be encorporated into the Smackdown broadcast. The Cruiserweight Champion should ideally be on every show. I think if they had a match or two a week featuring Cruiserweights then eventually WWE fans would warm to them a bit more because they are used to seeing them. I also feel a lot of them could do with some sort of gimmick. I think when Kid Kash first came in he had that good cocky persona but he seemes to have turned into generic heel Velocity Cruiserweight. That's the problem at the moment the lightweights are just seen as B-Show (Velocity) material and therefore that is the impression the fans are going to get.

 

They need to build the division on Smackdown and not on Velocity. Smackdown is short of top talent at the moment with a lot of injuries. I feel the Cruiserweight Division would add something new to the programme and the same matches wouldn't be on Smackdown every few weeks. It's a change in pace which is exactly what the show needs. Perhaps even they should get some backstage promos to hype upcoming matches so we care about them a bit more.

 

If you look at the majority of cruiserwights on Smackdown then they are mostly preoccupied such as Kendrick/London. Scotty and Funaki just can not be taken seriously as threats in the division anymore. The mexicools are a tag team. However I feel that Super Crazy might go back to the new ECW leaving Psychosis to go for the Cruiserweight gold. I think the introduction of ECW is going to make things worse for the Cruiserweight Division because they are probably going to be taking back top light weights such as Kid Kash, Nunzio, Super Crazy etc. Perhaps all the cruiserweight will go to ECW and we scrap the belt. I don't really fancy the prospect of a division with just Helms, Noble, Funaki, Scotty, Psychosis etc.

 

But as I said I think they need to be shown more on TV and have some sort of character development because theres no reason why we should care at the moment.

[Guest Thirteen]

What Cruiserweight Division?

No... I'm not joking.

[Guest MrFill]

This is why I'm hoping that once the ECW thing starts off, that the Cruisers will all go there.

 

At least Paul E knew how to book them (although WCW did for a while as well, until the Main Eventers complained).

[Guest poland74]

I think WWE have over the last year started to show signs of pushing individual cruiserweights at various times but the person they choose to push usually then ends up injured and all their plans go down the drain, i.e Kid Kash got some airtime on Smackdown then got injured shortly afterwards, Gregory Helms became champ had a few moments then got injured so there has been a bit of bad luck, However in saying this I do realise and accept that WWE have and probably will never use the cruiserweaight division in the same way as they use bigger guys.

[Guest CoTT]

Yup, the cruiserweight division is a mess alright. The title has been swapped around with very few properly built feuds or series' of defences. And they actual have plenty of decent workers but as said above, they just job them out time and time again. It's all about Johnny Ace though. His main belief is that cruiserweights don't draw and that people pay to see giants no matter how bad they are in the ring.

[The Icon 152]

Don't blame Ace alone though he's just a company man following orders.

[Guest CoTT]

The big man philosophy was re-established in the company by Ace. He's the main backer of it and has Vince convinced (no pun intended) with that theory.

[Guest Gooneronastick]

You mean there's a Cruiserweight Division? Can't see how when

they book a triple threat cruiserweight match to decide #1 contender for the title and then they have that big uncomprehensible lump Khali come in and destroy the match.

 

 

Just shows how much the WWE think of the cruiserweight division.

[Guest Jack]

When cruiserweights can draw flies to warm sh*t, then this may be worth talking about.

 

Why should the WWE spend time on something, that will never bring money?

 

Trying to build up the division is totally pointless, and it's as simple as that. Though the majority of smarks hate it, the casual fan, will always choose someone 6'5", over somene 5'5".

 

The mainstream don't care, and that's why cruisers don't deserve time on SmackDown!, RAW or any other national company. Unless fo course the booker doesn't know his market i.e (For the perfect example) Paul Heyman.

[Paul 584]

That argument never works Jack. In WCW the cruiser DID draw, and people enjoy seeing high flying moves. Remember Vince had to tell teh cruisers to calm down as they were showing up the heavyweights.

[Guest MrFill]

When cruiserweights can draw flies to warm sh*t' date=' then this may be worth talking about.[/quote']

You mean like how people always refer to the X-Division when talking about TNA, or how most of the ROH roster are Cruiser weight range?

 

Like Darkie said, before having to slow down, in WCW the Cruisers were drawing tons - people would tune in for their matches rather than the heavyweight stuff.

 

 

Add to that the fact that ECW brought Lucha to the US - so if it didn't draw, why did WCW and WWF suddenly start using them?

[Guest Jack]

I don't think any of the cruiserweights drew money in WCW. One of the best matches I ave ever seen, Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Misterio Jr. from sometime in 1997, I think, is the perfect proof of how much of a letdown the whole division was. the match was great, the feud was great, but whenever these guys met in the ring, or tried anything backstage, the crowd couldn't care less. Aside from the spots in the near perfect match, the crowd were silent.

 

And that goes through all of WCW. From Malenko, to Benoit, to Psicosis - The crowd were never interested.

 

'People' do talk about TNA's X-Division, or ROH, true, but that's only smarks who talk about them. One of the reasons ECW failed, and so will TNA and ROH if they go mainstream, is because the mainstream audience don't care about cruisers. Smarks talk about them sure, but the whole reason they will never be a success, is down to their size. People arn't interested in seeing normal people wrestle.

 

I will always refer to the boxing argument, because it's true. Wlad-Byrd did a MASSIVE number in Germany. One of their most popular fighteres ever, Sven Ottke, didn't do anywhere near as good in terms of business. Wlad is Ukranian, Ottke is german, and which drew most money? Wlad-Byrd. Why? because they are heavyweights. The Jack Dempsey and Jess Willard in (I think) 1927 made something ridiculous like $2 milllion, which kept the record for, I think, 40 odd years. Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, and Thomas Hearns had some of the greatest fights ever, and built up the middleweight divisions really well, but did they ever make serious money? No. There is a freakshow element when big men are concerned, and that's why there deserved to bve pushed. People don't want to see average sized men, wrestling a great match - Wrestling fans might sure, btu that isn't the audience WWE want to capture.

 

Eddie Guerrero was one of the best all-round entertainers ever, nbut why did he drop the title? He couldn't cope with the falling numbers that SmackDown! was getting. Rey Mysterio is/was getting booed. Why? Because people don't accept small wrestlers in such a prominant position.

 

ECW and the WWF used cruisers, because they can be a good addition to a wrestling show. That doesn't mean they deserve anything other than the opener though.

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

Eddie Guerrero was one of the best all-round entertainers ever' date=' nbut why did he drop the title? He couldn't cope with the falling numbers that SmackDown! was getting. [b']Rey Mysterio is/was getting booed. Why? Because people don't accept small wrestlers in such a prominant position.[/b]

 

ECW and the WWF used cruisers, because they can be a good addition to a wrestling show. That doesn't mean they deserve anything other than the opener though.

 

Rey Mysterio is getting booed because he is being booked like a loser. You cant blame the cruisers for not being successful when they arent given half a chance.

[Guest Jung]

I don't think cruisers should headline a show, but they can be worthwhile additions.

 

But as to the notion that none can draw or headline a show? Erm Shawn Michaels? Chris Benoit? Chris Jericho?

 

All of who are about 5'10 tops, and 220 at best.

 

And what does Eddie Guerrero not been able to handle pressure do with anything? He's one person who couldn't take it, yet your making out that "cruisers can't handle being at the top, because they won't draw" bit of a massive generalisation don't you think, and one with absolutely no foundation?

 

Plus the boxing argument doesn't hold up either. The fighters you named are some of the best fighters at any weight in history. Do you see anyone cueing up to watch Audley Harrison over Joe Calzaghe? No. And thats because he's crap. Same with the likes of Danny Williams.

 

People want to see excitement, thats why guys like De La Hoya or Mayweather, could probably outdraw Rahman at the mo. I think if you have an exciting big man over the exciting small man, then the spectacle issue comes in. But people watching big men over small men, just cause they're big? Rubbish.

 

One of the reasons ECW failed was because of small people? What evidence do you have to suggest that? Is Raven small? Sandman? Rhino? Douglas? RVD? no.

 

And if its small men why the failed, then why did WCW succeed with the same format, of heavyweights on top, and cruisers in the middle, just like ECW?

 

Your making massive generalisations based on like 2 matches. I can say no-one likes watching heavyweights cause people got bored when they watched say Val Venis v Matt Hardy? Good match? Sure, but they didn't care.

 

How about people only care about you, when there is something worth caring about, like a character, an angle, or a persona. And thats got nothing to do with size.

 

If Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit didn't draw because of size in 2004, then why didn't the likes of HHH and Batista do any better?

[Guest Jack]

Rey Mysterio is getting booed because he is being booked like a loser. You cant blame the cruisers for not being successful when they arent given half a chance.

The fans have never booed anyone because of how he was booked. And even then, Rey was booed all the way through the WrestleMania 22 match, because it was so obvious he would win, and then right after, when the fans knew he wasn't main event material.

But as to the notion that none can draw or headline a show? Erm Shawn Michaels? Chris Benoit? Chris Jericho?

 

All of who are about 5'10 tops, and 220 at best.

Obviously they can, but it doesn't mean they will be a success in that position. Benoit headlining was covered pretty well by WWE. He wasn't put in the ring with anyone, who would make him look small. For any casual fan, there is no difference between someone at 5'6" againgst someone 6'2", than there is someone 6'2" againgst a near seven footer. My point is, as long as the difference in height isn't vast, there isn't a problem. Shawn Michaels didn't draw as a heavyweight, mainly because he was made to look tiny, againgst Sid, Diesel or The Undertaker.

And what does Eddie Guerrero not been able to handle pressure do with anything? He's one person who couldn't take it' date=' yet your making out that "cruisers can't handle being at the top, because they won't draw" bit of a massive generalisation don't you think, and one with absolutely no foundation?[/quote']It would of been, if I had said it, yes. Eddie Guerrero couldn't handle the pressure, because he didn't draw. He was booked fantastically, but the fans didn't accept him beating someone Lesnar.

Plus the boxing argument doesn't hold up either. The fighters you named are some of the best fighters at any weight in history. Do you see anyone cueing up to watch Audley Harrison over Joe Calzaghe? No. And thats because he's crap. Same with the likes of Danny Williams.

1. Audley Harrison is not a World Champion. 2. Audley Harrison is not undefeated. If the positions were exactly the same, and it was Harrison who was the undefeated, undisputed Heavyweight Champion, who do you think would draw more money?

People want to see excitement' date=' thats why guys like De La Hoya or Mayweather, could probably outdraw Rahman at the mo. I think if you have an exciting big man over the exciting small man, then the spectacle issue comes in. But people watching big men over small men, just cause they're big? Rubbish.[/quote']Mayweather can't draw sh*t, and he is going to be an all-time great. De La Hoya draws in the big Latin-American audience. He is a special case anyway. Very few fighters can be as popular as he is. You would be extremely hard pressed to find someone anywhere near as popular, as De La Hoya is, especially at a lower weight. Tyson, the rapist, woman beating, ear-biting, ultimate bad-guy has drawn more money than him though.

One of the reasons ECW failed was because of small people? What evidence do you have to suggest that? Is Raven small? Sandman? Rhino? Douglas? RVD? no.

Fair enough, but there is nothing to sugest they helped ECW though. There is no proof either way.

And if its small men why the failed' date=' then why did WCW succeed with the same format, of heavyweights on top, and cruisers in the middle, just like ECW?[/quote']WCW was huge because of the main event, and it's that simple. the live audiences couldn't give a sh*t about Cruisers, and you're trying to tel me they drew money? Very few of the people who bothered to go to the shows, ghave a damn, and they don't now either. The nWo made WCW huge, the cruisers were an add-on to the product. That's not to say they drew big money though. WrestleMania 3 was a huge success. Adrian Adonis was on the undercard. Did he draw the 93,000? No. On the same card, Ricky Steamboat had a brilliant match, but even he admits that he didn't add to the audience number.

How about people only care about you' date=' when there is something worth caring about, like a character, an angle, or a persona. And thats got nothing to do with size.[/quote']Again, why should WWE spend time on psuhing the cruisers, when WCW did the exact same thing, and their fans didn't care? Why do nearly all non-smark wrestling companies, have big men as their Champions? Aside from companies that base themselves on workrate, small Champions are extremely rare. That's because the bookers know what will bring in the fans.

If Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit didn't draw because of size in 2004' date=' then why didn't the likes of HHH and Batista do any better?[/quote']Benoit's reign wasn't too bad ratings wise, because he was protected. Eddie suffered because it was unbelievable that he could beat Lesnar. Then the ratings went down, and he asked for the belt to be taken off him.

 

If Cruiserweights did draw, they would be headlining WWE and TNA. Simple as that.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Jack

[Guest Jung]

I'm not trying to suggest "cruisers should headline", but I don't think its as black and white as "cruisers can't draw"

 

Is there much difference between Steve Austin and HBK? Yet one can be classified as a cruiser beyond a doubt. Its surely all about booking, and presentation, not simply height and size.

 

The fans did except Eddie beating Lesnar, or else does that mean they didn't except anyone beating anyone, because nobody was drawing at the time?

 

And the fans have never booed anyone cause of how he was booked? That is unbelievable.

 

To name one off my head. John Cena gets cheered as a heel, who's cool and innovative.

 

As a face, he's booked as a guy constantly overcoming the odds, yet is far from cool and acts stupid half the time and gets booed out the building. That not cause of booking? Or how about the same thing with The Rock?

 

I'm not for one second saying any cruiser will draw, but the same doesn't apply to heavyweights either. Its about a package of personality and booking, and I don't think size particularly matters that much at all.

 

And the Harrison-Calzaghe argument still stands. Or heck compare it with Naseem Hamed and Harrison. Who was wanted more? Champion or no champion, they were still headliners. Thus surely it was about who they were facing, and how they were presented?

 

Thus as I said, its not as black and white as "cruisers don't draw".

[Paul 584]

Benoit headlining was covered pretty well by WWE. He wasn't put in the ring with anyone' date=' who would make him look small.[/quote']

 

Ummmm, his title defences against Kane perchance Jack?

 

 

If Cruiserweights did draw, they would be headlining WWE and TNA. Simple as that.

 

 

The X Division HAS been the main event on several PPVs and episodes of Impact.

As for WWE, you cant honestly belive that Vince isnt a mark for huge guys!

[Guest Slim Jim]

If he is such a mark for huge guys, then how come the smallest man in the company (bar Finlay's possible soon to be sidekick) is the World Heavyweight Champ?

[Paul 584]

Becouse:

 

1) the big guys who wont get shat on are out injured or on raw.

 

2) he is making an attempt at cashing in on the Eddie chants that Rey was getting. Remember that Eddie wa sinducted into the HoF the night rey won. You really think that if Vince gave a damn that Rey would have been squashed by Mark Henry?

 

edit: and really, Im not saying Vince is right or wrong in liking the big guys. But he is biased towards them even when they dont, and never will, draw or work even half as well as the littler guys.

[Guest Matthew J Stark]

I reckon they should be starting up WCW/ECW as a brand of it's own. Get some of the old school heavyweights, have some newer guys (Chris Masters springs to mind) 'defect', all the cruisers could jump ship and 'steal' the belt. Make it what it was before. Same for the US title & world too. bring back the ECW title for hardcore, no tag.

 

Ahhhhh, I didn't see much of WCW, but what I remember before it all went wrong was genius:lol

[Guest Breakdown]

Ive never understood the 'Vince loves big guys' thing that is often branded about. If so, then why is Rey Mysterio the world champion? Or Eddie Guerrero? Chris Benoit? The fact is if you get over, then you'll get pushed no matter how big (or small) you are.

[Paul 584]

If you really belive that then you are living in a dream world. Benoit and Eddie were given the belts becouse Vince was trying to see if going down a technical path would make any difference to the ratings. Eddie was about to be pushed up again as he was not only Vinces key to the HIGHLY lucrative latino market but about the only person on Smackdown who could ahve held the belt as he knew that DAVES health was a bit dodgy.

Rey I have already answered.

 

If Vince didnt like big guys would Mable have won King of the Ring? Would wrestlers feel like they have to take HGH or steroids in order yto get bigger? Would Big Show be a multi time champion now that he is out of shape and lazy? Would Mark Henry be in the Main Event scene? Why Nathan Jones? Wht Giant Kali? ect ect ect.