Champions League Winners Right to Qualify

[K.J 71]

After Liverpool won the Champions League last season after finishing fith in the Premiership, thus failing to qualify for this seasons tournament, UEFA changed the rules stating that should this happen again then the lowest placed qualifier should drop into the UEFA Cup allowing the European Champions into the Champions League. We can call it the Whinging Scousers Rule. This is quite relevant again this season, with Arsenal in the Champions League semi final and looking unlikely to make fourth place above Spurs.

 

Do you think it's right that Spurs could lose out on a Champions League place? Personally I said it was wrong last year, this year it's even worse. At least Everton still got their qualifying match. The way I see it Liverpool had no right to be in the Champions League this season, they were given a second chance having failed to defend their European Championship by finishing fith in the Premiership. Winning the European Cup is a culmination of 2 seasons work, you qualify in the first season through your domestic league placing then play in the tournament the following season, why should you play in it if you fail to qualify, especially at the expense of a team that has???

 

Gianluca Vialli made a sarcastic comment before last seasons final when asked if Liverpool should be allowed in next season should they win, he said why make the champions play in the tournament, why not just give them a bye to the final? He got it spot on I think, how far should it go? If you let the champions skip the qualifying process then why not the first round of group matches? Why bother making them play through the rest of the tournament at all?

 

I might not happen this season, but at some point it will and I personally think it's completely unfair. Tottenham deserve their Champions League place and all the rewards that come with it after a fantastic season by their standards, why should they have it taken away from them?

[BRM 220]

I think they got it right this season letting Liverpool enter in the first qualifying round.

 

You have to give the Premier League credit for the way they stood up for Everton last season, the same thing happened in Spain a few years ago and the Spanish football association just took Zaragozas spot off them. But i do think that the Champions League winners should have the oppatunity to defend their crown, surley winning the damn thing is more deserving than finishing 25 points behind you're domestic Champions.

 

It's a really nasty situations the simalrities between this year and last are both unreal if you consider both teams concerned are again local rivals, i really feel sorry for Spurs fans players and offcials at the moment.

[Guest Wolverine]

Oh, UEFA's got it spot-on. The champions of Europe should always be given a chance to defend their title. And if Arsenal win the CL, they will be taking the place of Tottenham, who would be entering in the 3rd Qualifying Round. Therefore, Arsenal should enter at the same stage. As for why they should be allowed to defend their trophy, a few points ...

 

What is the logic of holding a tournament to discover the best team in Europe when the undisputed European champions aren't allowed in the tournament?

 

What kind of achievement is fourth place compared to winning the Champions' League? Being the fourth best in your country isn't really something to celebrate. Being the champions of Europe is. When Liverpool won the thing, they had to beat Juventus, Chelsea and AC Milan to do so. In comparison, all Everton had to do was beat the likes of West Brom and Fulham regularly. If I had my way, the fourth placed team wouldn't get in the Champions' League under any circumstances. It's not really a great achievement.

 

If Spurs are denied a place in the Champions' League by Arsenal winning it, tough luck. Actually, Tottenham should be grateful to the Gunners that they're even in contention for a CL place in the first place. The reason why England gets four CL places is because of good European performances by the likes of Arsenal.

 

Everton shouldn't have been allowed in last year, but the FA are idiots. Now that UEFA has stepped in and applied common sense (for once), there won't be a repeat occurence. Spurs shouldn't, and won't be allowed in this year in the same scenario.

[Chris2K 176]

Hmm, I wonder what I think about it.

 

Three words:

 

Let's Go Barcelona.

 

Or four words:

 

Let's go AC Milan.

[Guest Nicole]

I think Spurs should get a place if they finish 4th. Why shouldn't they, they've played a full domestic season in the hope that they would get to a position like that, while Arsenal haven't focussed properly on the season and have been punished for it. Exactly why I was so pissed off when Liverpool were allowed in last year, they took there eyes off the league and they didn't deserve to be back in it, regardless if there winners or not.

[Guest Inno]

The ruling this season was fair, IMO. I'd like to see that implemented again. For one, TNS probably earned enough to keep their team going for two years thanks to the qualifier.

[Guest Jaymzy]

I think its fine as it is now.

 

The Wolverine is spot on in his assessment about the Champion side having every right to defend their crown........

 

Every side knew before the season how the qualifying was going to be decided.

 

Simple:- Any English side that wants to be assured of top flight European Football the following season had better finish 3rd or better.

 

It just happens to be ironic that again its fierce rivals vying for the same spot in Europe.

 

Considering theres so many Man United fans here, I wonder if the debate would be heading in the same direction if it was in fact United in the same position as Arsenal in Europe............:P :P

[Guest Steve O]

The top guy is a Spurs fan then. Im a gooner and I would feel sorry for Spurs if we win and knock them out but there fans are such ********s I cant wait for us to win hopefully. We will be the underdog so we will play better

[Guest MojoPogo]

Actually, given all that Spurs (players, manager and fans) have said about Arsenal, or are supposed to have said, i'd think it would be funny if Arsenal won it. theres absolutely no need for some of the crap they've come out with. As they say though, you only reap what you sow......

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

What kind of achievement is fourth place compared to winning the Champions' League? Being the fourth best in your country isn't really something to celebrate. Being the champions of Europe is. When Liverpool won the thing' date=' they had to beat Juventus, Chelsea and AC Milan to do so. In comparison, all Everton had to do was beat the likes of West Brom and Fulham regularly. If I had my way, the fourth placed team wouldn't get in the Champions' League under any circumstances. It's not really a great achievement.[/quote']

 

We're not debating Spurs' right to finish fourth in the PL. If Arsenal win this year, they wont automatically leapfrog Spurs in the League table, will they? Its about Spurs' right to have a crack at the CL, the very thing you keep pushing as the important thing. Lets say Arsenal DONT win, and next season Spurs win the CL. Looking back on it 13 months from now, it wouldnt have seemed fair if they might have been refused their right to participate. They HAVE won the right to be in the CL, albeit by finishing fourth in a League.

 

Having said that, I dont think its very fair that the holders shouldn't be in the comp to defend their title, but then again they defend it by qualifying again the next year I guess. Its one of those things that has no perfect solution.

[Chris2K 176]

The top guy is a Spurs fan then. Im a gooner and I would feel sorry for Spurs if we win and knock them out but there fans are such ********s I cant wait for us to win hopefully. We will be the underdog so we will play better

 

Wait, I'm a Spurs fan.

 

And I'm a mod.

 

So that makes your post:

 

Chris2K, a mod, is a *******.

 

Doesn't that mean you should be cooled off?

 

Or does it REALLY mean that you shouldn't tar every Spurs fan with the same brush?

[Guest Al Stevens]

I have always said this about the champions league if the team won it should automatically be included in the 3rd Round.

 

It's like having say the ashes without England or Austrila, it doesnt make sence.

[Guest MrFill]

I think this is similar to the World Cup situation, where the hosting team doesn't have to qualify - you could raise the same argument - why do they deserve it?

 

 

I think that the Champions from the previous year should get an "automatic" entry as though they had got placed by a position in the league.

 

Should one of the other teams possibly "lose" their place? Well, if last year's winners are lower, then yes.

 

There are far too many rules which "aren't fair" and everybody can complain about something, but if it's made a rule, then everybody must abide by it.

You can call that the Whinging Spurs rule. :lol

[Guest JC]

I wouldn't worry. Barcelona should have won it last year and I'll be damned if they don't beat Arsenal in the final (assuming they finish off Milan tonight).

 

I might get some backlash for saying it but Arsenal DO NOT deserve to win this trophy! Everyone believes they beat pure quality teams to get here; they weren't even challenged up to last night when Villareal should have had the game at least level by halftime.

 

1) Real madrid are a shadow of the side that beat United in 2003..a faint shadow and Arsenal only scraped it remember? Teh didn't destroy the Galacticos for sure

 

2) Juventus - The tie was killed off in the first leg and Juve didn't show up then; all credit to le'Arse they played well but it wasn't exactly like Juve were battering their keeper to the ground with shots.

 

3) Villareal - I honestly believe Villa are EXTREMELY unlucky not to be in a potential all spanish final. I feel for Requilme (sp?) , his performance deserved better although a good save from Lehman and yes Jose Mari did dive but thats hardly something Arsenal players can nit pick about.

 

Simple as this, Arsenal will get beat by a rampaging Barca in the final and if not then maybe UEFA should think about making the competition different in terms of format because it's becoming a joke? Porto? Liverpool? Arsenal? Makes me imbarassed to say I love football.

[Guest Wolverine]

They HAVE won the right to be in the CL' date=' albeit by finishing fourth in a League. [/quote']

 

They definitely haven't. The rules have been made clear by UEFA this year - the 4th place DOES NOT get a place in the CL if a team below them actually wins the thing. There was some confusion about the ruling last year, so you could emphasise on the side of Everton. Not this year.

 

Jono, if the best team in a tournament always won, it would be incredibly boring. That's the great thing about knockout competitions, any random team can win it.

[Guest MrFill]

Arsenal were INCREDIBLY lucky to have won last night - they should have had a man sent off before half-time, and the ref missed a penalty opportunity for Villareal.

 

Not to mention that the Spaniards were incredibly unlucky with their shots (including headers), and that penalty was horribly taken.

 

Overall, the Gunners are already on borrowed time, I'll be surprised if they are severely trounced by Barcelona.

[Guest Hemme]

First off, I think this thing shouldn't even be a factor in the Champions league, I'm a firm believer in only the countries league winner being in the tounrement, none of this 2nd & 3rd place stuff, only the CHAMPIONS should be in the league.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I think it's a bit hard on Spurs as, as others have said they've worked hard to get into the position they are in & having that taken away by a team who've finished lower than them is a bit unfair. Sadly you can't please everyone as if Arsenal do win they should be allowed to defend their trophy.

[Guest Jaymzy]

Surely it is one of the most endearing aspects of sport, watching the underdog get up and beat their more fancied rivals.......

 

Kinda like Wolves sitting 20th on the table beating Man United who were I think top at the time......:P

 

I think you're being harsh on Liverpool though Jono, their squad isnt that different to last years that won the CL. They've had a pretty good season to date, typified by them knocking Chelski out of the F.A. Cup on the weekend.

[Guest Sav]

Overall' date=' the Gunners are already on borrowed time, I'll be surprised if they are severely trounced by Barcelona.[/quote']

I'd be surprised if you give Arsenal the credit they'd deserve if they beat Barca/AC Milan. I'm sure it'll be pure luck that sees us through so you won't have to.

[Guest MrFill]

I'd be surprised if you give Arsenal the credit they'd deserve if they beat Barca/AC Milan. I'm sure it'll be pure luck that sees us through so you won't have to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Arsenal hater, or a fan of any particular team, but they were VERY lucky last night.

 

What you have to remember is that I'm really a soccer fan, I just watch games when they're on (and understand about 95% of the rules), so I won't support either team, in fact I'll cheer for both, which confuses the hell out of people. :D

[Guest Jaymzy]

One stat somes up Arsenal in this campaign - 10 clean sheets!!!!

 

A record breaking stat may I add, so Arsenal deserve to be there.

[Guest Boyo]

Great point Sav. I must admit Arsenal have been very, very poor ever since they qualified from the group stage, I mean, how unlucky must Beckham, Zidane, Ronaldo, Robinho, Raul, Baptista, Nedved, Zlatan, Vieira, Camoranesi, Trezeguet, Zalayeta, Riquelme, Jose Mari, Senna and Forlan have been if they couldn't score a goal past ol' Kolo, Flammers, Boo-boo and Pip Senderos? :roll

 

Or perhaps a record-breaking clean-sheet run against about 70% of the greatest attacking players in the world today, bar Bobbydinho, Eto'O and Sheva, Adriano and Kaka, two of whome we will be facing anyway in three weeks, just shows how bad luck always affects our opposition.

 

What I don't get about the hubbub this thread, about the "should the 4th pace league gubbies or the CL winners get the CL place?" argument is that the rules were firmly in place from last year and after the Liverpool/Everton episode, most people agreed that the winners should take precedence over the 4th placed bubs.

 

It's only because it's Spurs and Arsenal that this is rearing it's head again. It sells papers.

 

And, of course, if Arsenal do win it this year, and I fancy them to, simply because whoever we play we will be MASSIVE underdogs, then come next year Arsenal will still be in the big one, and Spurs will be crashing out heavily to Bucharest.

 

Arsenal have got a squirrel with more Champions League experience than most of the Spurs team :lol.

 

Cheers!

[Guest The Man Beast]

JJ=RA AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[K.J 71]

Back when it was the Champions Cup, and just the Champions qualified, if a team won it then didn't win their league then that country would have two teams in the tournament the following season, back when every country only had one. SO why can't they do the same now, why can't five teams from England play in the tournament and not by going back to the first qualifying round like Liverpool had to? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for UEFA to sort out. Perhaps that should have been an option on the poll.

 

I want to see Arsenal win the European Cup, but with this potential injustice in the pipeline i'm finding it hard to get behind them.

[Guest Boyo]

I want to see Arsenal win the European Cup' date=' but with this potential injustice in the pipeline i'm finding it hard to get behind them.[/quote']

How is it an injustice? Seriously - HOW is it an injustice (if Gooners win and Spurs finish 4th and don't make it into the Champions League)?

 

It could have been an injustice last year when we hadn't come across this situation before in England. No-one expected Liverpool to win the CL. No one expected Liverpool not to finish in the top 4. NO-ONE expected Everton to finish 4th!

 

You could have argued there would have been an injustice if Everton were denied a place in the competition, but they were not. You could have argued that due to them finishing 5th in the PL, Liverpool shold have to qualify in the pre-liminary rounds. And they did.

 

All this, crucially, was before UEFA made a rule stating exactly what will happen if the situation arose again.

 

I wouldn't feel sorry for Spurs in the least. Everyone knew the score before the league started. Of course they did. Because due to the Liverpool/Everton farce a rule had to be made. Tottenham are only challenging the rule now because itis them in the galling position they find themselves in.

 

If Spurs fans and board felt so strongly about this rule then they should have appealed against it at the start of the season when it was still possibly open to debate. It laughable, and makes a mockery of football, if they decide to challenge it now.

 

Cheers!