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Vince Russo.


pinmepayme
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My apologies if this has been done a hundred times before but i was wondering what you guys thought of Vince Russo?

 

I guess i should give my opinion on him as i have started the thread then. :D

 

I started watching wrestling in March 1999, and as a mark until around the time Russo left for WCW in about the September of that year i loved the product.

 

Maybe that was down to me being a mark or the wrestlers around at the time (Steve Austin, The Rock, Mankind, Kane, The Undertaker etc) or the creativity of Vince Russo, among others. Personally i think it was a mixture of all three.

 

Like i say, maybe it was because i was a bit of a mark but i thought Russo was superb at creating superb storylines and made the then WWF a must see each week. I know it wasn't all down to him but he played a massive part and anyone who tells you he didn't aren't telling the truth or don't like Russo.

 

His reputation quickly declined when he jumped ship to Dubya C Dubya and his storylines and booking were brought into question, and rightfully so, after booking the infamous "Viagra On A Pole", putting the WCW world title on actor David Arquette and then himself and switching title belts every other week in the Atlanta group.

 

Russo is also claimed to have 'killed WCW' by some people, which i think is a joke.

 

Sure, he never improved the product but WCW was on it's way out long before Russo joined due to a crippling wage bill and too many main eventers having creative control clauses in their contracts and not letting new talent work their way up.

 

Anyway, i'm a fan of his work in the WWF/E and his "Crash TV" as some like to call might be ridiculed as we see it today but it was definitely what was needed back then and i think Russo deserves his share of the credit for pulling the then WWF ahead of WCW in the ratings war and helping the now WWE to where it is today.

 

As far as his time in WCW goes, yes some his ideas were ridiculous but i think if he had a Vince McMahon type figure to reign in some his far-fetching ideas then he could have helped the company instead he didn't have somebody to stop him in his tracks like i'm sure Vinnie Mac did in the WWF and channel his creative talent in a more productive way.

 

Anyway, sorry to ramble on, i'm interested to read your thought on him aswell.

 

pinmepayme.

Edited by pinmepayme
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Good write up! Russo was an excellent writer who let the power he got at WCW go to his head. His WWF days were awesome. I could never wait till the next episode of Raw.

 

When he moved to WCW something happened. He just got real bad real quick. I dont think he can be blamed for the downfall of WCW. THat was a collective effort.

 

I think if given another chance Vince could be a driving force in WWE

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At this very moment in time, no, simply because the McMahons are slowly going insane. But when Russo was around in the 90s, he'd no doubt have been far worse had McMahon not filtered him. When he went to WCW, he proved the point and failed miserably.

 

If Russo came in today, I honestly don't think that ANYTHING would be different to what we see now, bar too much overbooking.

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First off, David Arquette was against the idea of being WCW World Champion, but they forced him into it. Arquette thinks it was a very dumb idea and he gave his money for the storyline to charity.

 

Vince Russo is a LEGEND for one thing.

 

His last appearance of Dubya See Dubya was in a Popemobile.

 

Now that is great TV. And besides, Vince Russo owns his own promotion now. Ring Of Glory. A mix of Christianity & Wrestling.

 

In sure THAT will take off pretty well [/sarcasm]

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**** steph and these hollywood rejects

 

I'm assuming the asterisks represent a bad word beginning with F, in which case........................the rejects can go to blazes and I'll just **** Steph :xyx

 

 

Vince Russo is a NOB-END for one thing.

 

There, fixed that for ya :xyx

Edited by Gooneronastick
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Russo did not kill the WCW. Nor did he save it, mind you. The WCW was already a sinking ship by that time, with a laundry list of problems. Russo probably ran/worked in a succesful and stable fed with no bullshit...like the WWE.

 

But the problems were just too much for him. Hence the weird storylines. Russo just needs a stable, no-pressure enviornment.

 

So I think he would do quite well in a place like the modern WWE

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You don't think he can be blamed for the death of WCW? Are you serious? David Arquette is a former WCW champion' date=' that's all that needs to be said.[/quote']

 

Sure, putting the WCW World Title on David Arquette was a stupid publicity stunt and yes, it did harm the belt but to say that was what killed World Championship Wrestling is stupid.

 

IMO Vince Russo is one of the best writers around at the moment WHEN he has a McMahon character to control him..

 

personally the WWE booking/writing team for me would be:

Vince HEAD of both

Shane McMahon

Vince Russo

Paul Heyman

Dusty Rhodes

JR

Ric Flair

 

Man, i would love to be in the same room as them egos trying to write and book an episode of Raw or Smackdown!.

 

I'm sure someone would end up leaving with a bloody nose. :D

 

pinmepayme.

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Not stupid at all, it effectively killed any credibility the belt had, and is one of the things WCW could never recover from. He had a chance to save WCW and he completely ****ed it up. What's really stupid is thinking he should come back.
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Not stupid at all' date=' it effectively killed any credibility the belt had, and is one of the things WCW could never recover from. He had a chance to save WCW and he completely ****ed it up. What's really stupid is thinking he should come back.[/quote']

 

I'm not denying it hurt the belt but they could have recovered from it, i mean it's not like Arquette pinned Goldberg 1-2-3 clean for the strap. He pinned Eric Bischoff in a tag team match, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Lest we forget, Vince McMahon won the WWF title and he pinned HHH! The WWF recovered from that, so why couldn't WCW?

 

The reason was Sav, that WCW went down the toliet due to years of neglect, stupidity and greed not because of a stupid world title change.

 

pinmepayme.

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There's a big difference between the owner of a company becoming champion, than an average actor who has nothing to do with wrestling becoming champion.

And I wasn't citing that title change as the only reason WCW died, but Russo's constant horrible booking put the nail in the coffin, when they COULD have recovered from the past crap.

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Russo did not kill the WCW. Nor did he save it' date=' mind you. The WCW was already a sinking ship by that time, with a laundry list of problems. Russo probably ran/worked in a succesful and stable fed with no bullshit...like the WWE.[/quote']

The thing is that when Russo jumped to WCW, their ratings went up, so in fact he was in the motions of saving it.

 

It was a culmination of things after Russo arrived that caused WCW's downfall, seveal of which included his later story-lines.

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One positive thing about Russo was that everyone from the curtain jerkers to the main eventers had some kind of angle or storyline going on. Look at the number of people in the WWE right now (Venis and Tajiri to name but two) who haven't been a part of anything significant in a long time. With Russo pretty much everyone on the roster was involved in something on TV, granted a lot of it was just horrible...but still.

 

Also, yeah WCW was dying a slow death long before Russo ever came into the equation (I'm thinking probably Starrcade 97 and the shockingly bad decision to have Goldberg lose to Nash. I mean, come on, did anyone think it was a good idea to have Goldberg lose to Nash. ANYONE? Also the so called Fingerpoke of Doom all led to WCW being put on a life support machine) but a lot of what Russo did, put the final nail in the coffin.

Edited by Naitch
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There's a big difference between the owner of a company becoming champion, than an average actor who has nothing to do with wrestling becoming champion.

And I wasn't citing that title change as the only reason WCW died,but Russo's constant horrible booking put the nail in the coffin, when they COULD have recovered from the past crap.

 

Erm . . .

 

You don't think he can be blamed for the death of WCW? Are you serious? David Arquette is a former WCW champion, that's all that needs to be said.

 

I think you did mate. ;)

 

pinmepayme.

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By 'that's all that needs to be said' I was just being over the top with mentioning one of the biggest travesties in wrestling history although you could interpret it a number of ways, it's not actually what I meant although I consider it a big contribution. Edited by Sav
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Russo is a great creative mind no doubt, and he was unquestionably responsible for some of the best angles/stories in the history of wrestling, but, that said, I can sort of understand why some fans don't like him.

 

I personally endorse the majority of Russo's philosophies, but I have to admit that he probably needs someone to moderate him. I usually don't mind the type of crazy-ass booking he goes for, it's good fun, what I do mind however is the ridiculous overkill where there are multiple heel/face turns and just sheer chaos every show...

 

That was the most significant difference between Attitude WWF and crazy-ass WCW I think. As WWF had its fair share of smark-offending moments- like Vinny Mac winning the Rumble, and Shane winning the European title, and Gillberg winning the light-heavyweight title, and knight-stick on a pole matches, and evening gown matches AND Mae Young giving birth to a hand etc etc etc etc etc

 

BUT, point being, those things happened in moderation in WWF, and big heel/face turns were well-timed and the crazy stuff didn't swamp the shows. In actual fact, the crazy stuff was a productive element of a well-rounded and exciting sports entertainment product- a product which was fresh, entertaining and perfectly paced...

 

McMahon is a great wrestling mind, and he knows how much is TOO MUCH. What McMahon doesn't really know though, is a good idea from a bad one- that's just a terrible misconception that has built-up over time (esp on the net). I mean, if McMahon is such a brilliant editor, then why did he allow the Big Show's dad cancer thing? or the Katie Vick thing? or the Al Wilson thing? etc etc etc.

 

Long story short though, Russo needs someone like McMahon, BUT, by the same token, McMahon needs someone like Russo aswell. As, the main difference (now that Russo is gone) is that there are fewer awesome angles being booked along with all the recurring 'shock' stuff... So, we get moderated crap usually, rather than the moderated greatness of the attitude era...

 

didnt Russo return to WWE in 2002 or 03 but got the sack a few months later for being out of touch with wrestling.

Nah, that's not a very accurate summary.

 

He was only there a day or two and both parties realised it just wasn't going to work. For one thing, Russo had no desire to work under Stephanie (which Vince made clear was part of the deal) and for another, McMahon wasn't prepared to make the dramatic changes Russo insisted needed to be made (kayfabe-breaking reality product, with Bischoff leading a hostile takeover etc)

 

However, McMahon DID bring Bischoff in after that though, so Russo can maybe get indirect credit for that(?) And truth be told, WWE have made some of the other changes that Russo endorsed then aswell. Like WWE.com being much more open etc...

 

Whatever the case, Russo was only back with WWE for a very brief time, and he was happy to leave for TNA...

 

There's a big difference between the owner of a company becoming champion' date=' than an average actor who has nothing to do with wrestling becoming champion.[/quote']

There is a big difference yes-

 

The guy who has nothing to do with wrestling becoming champion generates mainstream publicity, whilst the owner of the company becoming champion doesn't...

 

Yeah I know, that's not what you meant, but you're getting too hung-up on the 'credibility' of the belt in isolation I think. As, Neither of those 'wins' had anything to do with the credibility of the belt really, because both wins were just swerves. McMahon wasn't portrayed as the best wrestler in the company, and Arquette wasn't portrayed as a wrestler at all. So, seriously, what's the big deal? I 'get' that people were annoyed that Arquette was given the honour of holding the belt ahead of others who really deserved it, BUT, as I say, that isn't a problem in itself IMO.

 

The real problem was that it kind of derailed the New Blood storyline (the storyline which was anchoring WCW at the time) and because the level of patience required was just way too high then. And as I said earlier, the unmoderated craziness was the main difference for me, because it's that very difference that changes my opinion of the Arquette win from 'Hey. this is a surprising and entertaining development which I didn't see coming... nice one!' to 'For ****'s sake, take your foot off the pedal for five seconds will you?! This **** is like a circus... And not in a good way'

 

But that's just me(!)

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