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Do you reckon having a main finishing manoeuvre as a submission hold damages wrestlers? In certain cases they have a secondary move e.g. Chris Jericho, with the Lion-Sault that others regularly kicked out of as it doesn’t seem to be recognised as a true finisher.

 

In my opinion submission finishes should be given more credibility as no-one on the upper card seems to tap much. Lots of my favourite matches have involved submission finishes e.g. Austin vs Bret Hart ( OK, I know he didn’t actually give up, but who doesn’t remember Austin covered in blood in the sharpshooter?!) and even Chris Jericho vs. Chyna I adored!

 

But anyway, I was just wondering what everyone else’s opinions are?

 

P.S: I haven’t watched wrestling in a good few years if you’ve read my previous post, so apologies if it has changed greatly! And I’m sure there are a good few exceptions to this.

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i know what you mean - The Rock had 'The People's Elbow' , 'Rock Bottom' and used to use the sharpshooter.

 

Batista uses a spine-buster to finish sometimes. Benoit has 'The crossface' or the headbutt of the top rope.

 

Angle has 'The Angle Slam' or 'The ankle lock'

 

'Taker has 'The tombstone' , 'The last ride' or a chokeslam to finish.

 

but yeah its better when the wrestlers have other finishers in their protege.

Edited by GURRRRR
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did you know that Chris Jericho used to use the Lion Sault more than The Walls of Jericho to finish when he first came to the WWE, and The Cripller Crossface has alot of credibility as does the Sharpshooter & The Angle Lock, yes, i said Angle instead of Ankle. :D

 

im surprised Angle has never used the Sharpshooter, as Bret Hart said i think Angle would pull it off pretty well.

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i dont think tapping makes you look weak at all, the most it does is put the move over, and if your in the hold for a good 1 minute or so then it'll put the move over aswell as yourself for lasting that long in a submission hold such as the crossface.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(did that make sense? :P)

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Nope, I never knew Jericho used the Lionsault more so I guess that's fair enough in his case!

 

And yeah, it does make them look weak, but surely if the majority started tapping, with a few exceptions ( Undertaker , Kane ) at some point it would make it more exciting for the future? Who actually believe when a submission hold is put on at a main even that it could be over..:D

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its like the Angle Lock' date=' the first person to ever make Kane tap out was Kurt Angle using the Angle Lock so from there on out that move was concidered at bladdy lethel :D[/quote']

 

haha! Never knew that happened, I really need to get back into wrestling. Does Jericho still elevate his Walls of Jericho? Becuase I CANT STAND a boston crab :D

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Im not so sure. I think it's good to have something like that as a finisher. It's traditional, Masters is a big guy and therefore looks like he can put more power into it. Plus, the way it has been built so far hasn't cheapened it's effectiveness and it has only added to his heel character. I think it is a good finisher as long as they still affirm it's strength. It's a move that has a story behind it.

 

I mean, repect to the guys that do the moves, they have ability, but I can't stand to watch some indie guys with their "triple spinning what the **** drivers off the top rope." Yeah, it looks good but try telling a story next time.

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The Angle lock has lost all credibility,i mean back in 2001 when Angle stuck the hold on Booker T etc they would sell it superbly and tap in seconds.Where as now when Angle sticks it on Cena the crowd go nuts for it but the holds left on for at least five minutes which looks ridiculous and the fans lose intrest after the first 30 seconds.To make it a true finisher most people should either tap to it within a minute or rool through it.
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Was anyone else as confused as I was that Shelton wasn't tapping out to the Angle Lock for what was nearly a whole minute?

As for the Walls of Jericho, Jericho hasn't done it properly in years, it was looking like a weak Boston Crab for ages. When he was doing the Lion Tamer in WCW he was cranking back on the neck and it looked brilliant.

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The masterlock (full nelson) is a much better finishing move than the crossface, which is almost always sloppily applied as the person can move in all sorts of ways, and it seems to be in a different position each time,

 

However, I do think having a submission finisher as a main one can be bad, because the length of time people spend in it can vary greatly, meaning some people look weak for tapping out after 20 secs, and others (for example Edge a year ago) stayed in two different submmission holds for ages after already coming in with an injury.

 

Another reason it's not that good is that 95% of the times that a finisher is applied, it leads to a pinfall. Excluding the Masterlock, how many times are most submission holds escaped? The ankle lock is usually applied 3 or 4 times every match and got out of in a number of ways.

 

It's also slightly anti-climactic when someone has it applied on them in the centre of the ring, as they either get to the ropes, or give up without getting anywhere near the ropes, so there's no "will they or won't they tap" interest.

 

Another thing that annoys me is when Kurt Angle, falls on his back and grapevines the leg of someone in the ankle-lock, as you know for a fact he's won the match, cause no-one ever escapes from that. As soon as he gets in that position, you may as well FF to the next match, cause you know the outcome.

 

Ed

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Another reason (a submission finisher is) not that good is that 95% of the times that a finisher is applied' date=' it leads to a pinfall. Excluding the Masterlock, how many times are most submission holds escaped?[/quote']

 

Another thing that annoys me is when Kurt Angle' date=' falls on his back and grapevines the leg of someone in the ankle-lock, as you know for a fact he's won the match, cause no-one ever escapes from that. As soon as he gets in that position, you may as well FF to the next match, cause you know the outcome.[/quote']

 

Doesn't the second point contradict the first? You don't like submission finishers because they rarely finish the opponent, yet you don't like Kurt's grapevined Ankle Lock because it does. :?

 

Personally, the more signature finishers or, at least, moves that could (and have) finish(ed) the match the better. One reason I'm enjoying the Ring of Honour is that when watching I feel that the match could finish at any time - and it often does.

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When Masters is talented enough to pull off a 'REAL' finisher I am sure they will have one for him :P

He has used his OVW finisher a couple of times in matches - it's a Torture Rack into a spin out neck breaker - it's actually quite impressive looking.

 

Masters has some talent, but they've lumbered him with the pathetic gimmick (the Masterlock Challenge) and an unimpressive looking finisher (a Full Nelson).

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The Masterlock Challenge was a good way of getting him some heat without having to watch him wrestle and I think it worked.

 

As far as the grapevine Ankle Lock, Shawn Michaels didn't tap out to it at Raw Homecoming and Brock Lesnar escaped it at Wrestlemania 19.

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He has used his OVW finisher a couple of times in matches - it's a Torture Rack into a spin out neck breaker - it's actually quite impressive looking.

 

Masters has some talent, but they've lumbered him with the pathetic gimmick (the Masterlock Challenge) and an unimpressive looking finisher (a Full Nelson).

 

Cant remember ever seeing it. I will have to keep an eye out for that one.

 

 

When is the last time Regal used his Regal Stretch?

 

 

 

The Masterlock Challenge was a good way of getting him some heat without having to watch him wrestle and I think it worked.

 

As far as the grapevine Ankle Lock, Shawn Michaels didn't tap out to it at Raw Homecoming and Brock Lesnar escaped it at Wrestlemania 19.

 

This is the problem - Masters got 0 heat from it and he still has 0 heat.

 

I think its his entrance - you cannot love that shyte :P

Edited by the HiTman
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The Masterlock Challenge was a good way of getting him some heat without having to watch him wrestle and I think it worked.

If by heat you mean "zero crowd reaction", and it made it look like he couldn't even face a wrestler, so had to pick on random people, then yes, it worked. :)

 

I think it was a horrible way to introduce him - he should have beaten some jobbers (like Richards or other Heat workers) and had them pass out or something, then it would have got him over a LOT bigger.

 

The first real opponent he faces was Michaels, and he lost (for obvious reasons) - so he ended up looking like a chump.

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