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Wrestling's current state


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Hi all I'm new to the forum!

 

I was very into wrestling about 5 years ago, posting on the internet etc. even e-feds! haha. I left it for some reason and only decided to see what was going on following the tragic death of Eddie, which I was heart-broken.

 

Anyway, I have done quite a lot of searching and still am a bit bemused. If anyone could tell me how Bradshaw seems to have got such a push? And who are Batista, John Cena and Randy Orton? It would be much appreciated.

 

I found out about the whole Smackdown/Raw thing and was quite bewildererd. I think a smaller amout of belts is better.

 

The last PPV's I watched were brilliant, e.g Royal Rumble 2000 ( i think ) with HHH vs. Cactus Jack, and there subsequent Hell in the Cell Match. Leading on to my final question, is wrestling really as bad as all the 'smark' sites make it out to be these days?

 

Thanks for your time.

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You have a lot of work ahead of you, my man!

 

If it's any help though, my brother only just got back into WWE so I have been lending him all the PPV's from the start of 2005 and some of the key parts from 2004 and he seems like he is getting up to date just from watching the 2005 events. With regards with people like Cena, Batista and Orton, picking up PPV's from the start of 2004 and working through them will help alot.

 

Plus! Hello, I'm new here myself!

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Bradshaw, or John "Bradshaw" Layfield (JBL for short) as he is now known, was given a huge push by Vince McMahon after WrestleMania XX when Brock Lesnar, SmackDown's biggest heel superstar left the company. Lesnar (who you've probably heard of unless you've been living under a rock on Mars for the past five years) was incredible as you will find out if you watch some of his matches, left WWE because he was unhappy with the touring schedule, fancied his chances at becoming an NFL player (which he failed at) and didn't like the idea of jobbing to the Undertaker who had just gone back to his old spooky Deadman gimmick. So Bradshaw, a good friend of Vince, creates the JBL persona (based very much upon the JR Ewing character from Dallas), cuts some amazing promos and gets some great heel heat despite some less-than-amazing main event performances (though I'm a fan of his brawling style myself).

 

Batista entered the WWE in a forgettable run as D-Von Dudley's sidekick but his potential was realised when he became part of the Evolution faction which was started by HHH and also contained Ric Flair (mainly in the manager role) and Randy Orton (who I will get to in a minute). Evolution for me, was probably the best thing to happen to WWE since 2000. With HHH fighting for the World Heavyweight Title, Batista and Flair going after the tag team gold and Randy Orton becoming the longest reigning Intercontinental Champion in years, Evolution dominated RAW much like the nWo had dominated WCW but it wasn't overdone as much.

 

Anywho, Randy Orton goes on to win the World HW Title off Chris Benoit, causing HHH to turn on him and kick him out of Evolution, taking his title in the process. It was only a matter of time before Batista, with the fans starting to cheer him, turned on HHH and they faced each other for the title at the last WrestleMania where Batista won and holds the title (which has been switched to SD!) to this day.

 

Now to John Cena. He came into WWE from their developmental federation OVW just like Batista and Orton. His first significant action was a heel run where he challenged Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title but lost. Having the white-boy hip-hop gimmick, he soon began to get popular with the young fans and he turned babyface beating Big Show for the US Title at WrestleMania XX. He went on (much like Orton with IC Title) to have a very long affair with this title and his popularity continued to increase over the next year, earning him a shot at the WWE Title against the afore-mentioned JBL. He won (in what was actually a poor match) and he is now the WWE Champion over on RAW.

 

WWE has changed a lot since the HHH/Cactus Jack (one of my all-time favourite feuds) rivalry in 2000. HHH is still a huge player in the WWE but Batista, Orton and Cena have joined the main event scene. The problem with this new batch of superstars is that they have been booked badly at times and they have been shoved down our throats somewhat.

 

Batista was pushed way too quickly. He had not even had one memorable singles feud before becoming the World Heavyweight Champion!! To make matters worse, his in-ring performances have looked weak when forced to wrestle long main event matches that he clearly wasn't/isn't used to. He does have "the look" going for him though at least. As far as physical specimens go, he's one of the strongest looking wrestlers to ever step in a WWE ring. He's likely to lose his title soon though because he's injured. He's probably not one for the future because he's actually in his late 30s/early 40s.

 

Orton was pushed perfectly when in Evolution as HHH and Ric Flair's protegé. His IC Title run was one of the best in a long time. His transition into the World Title picture was too rapid though. He was the youngest WWE World Champion in history likely given that status because Lesnar, who had held that credential before, had left and Vince wanted to sweep his name under the mat. He turned face very suddenly and the fans soon lost interest in him when they realised they had no reason to cheer him as he had been a great cocky heel for the past few years before that. Since losing the title, he turned heel again out of nowhere where he's had a long drawn out feud with the Undertaker which hasn't set the world on fire. He's young though. No doubt he will reach greater heights and will be a decent main eventer for years to come.

 

Although Cena was booked very well in his build-up to becoming WWE Champion, he's been shoved down our throats far too much over the past year because he sells rap CDs and superstar merchandise. It's clear that Vince McMahon is pushing him through the roof in order to make him the next Rock or Austin but his in-ring performances are nothing special. Also, his white boy rapper gimmick though loved by the majority, irritates some of the more cynical fans of old and this means that WWE is losing a lot of its old fans for the sake of a new generation of younger viewers.

 

If you ask me, WrestleMania 2000 to WrestleMania XX was good (though probably not as good as the couple of years before that) but there has been an obvious decline over the past year and half or so. I have to point the finger towards the decline of the undercard/midcard matches and the lack of decent "wrestling" champions (though Benoit's run with the title was a breath of fresh air).

 

If WWE can push the emphasis to a little more good wrestling ahead of quick ratings-grabbing storylines, I see no reason why WWE shouldn't pick up again. I still enjoy the product to a degree but good matches and solid storylines (no weddings, funerals and pregnancies) are needed in order for WWE to slowly but surely build up its popularity again.

 

*wipes sweat off brow*

Edited by CoTT
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Personally I believe the WWE is not as good as it was when Austin and Vince were fueding and Mick Foley was at odds with taker and DX ran wild and caused problems for everyone! HHH and Rock have had some great matches for the IC title along with HHH and Owen Hart had some great matches as well! I also remember when Kane arrived on the scene and broke in the cage to drop taker and helped HBK retain the title! I dont believe its as exciting now as it was then! Theres talent yes but I enjoyed it more back then! HHH:worship rules!
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Personally I believe the WWE is not as good as it was when Austin and Vince were fueding and Mick Foley was at odds with taker and DX ran wild and caused problems for everyone! HHH and Rock have had some great matches for the IC title along with HHH and Owen Hart had some great matches as well! I also remember when Kane arrived on the scene and broke in the cage to drop taker and helped HBK retain the title! I dont believe its as exciting now as it was then! Theres talent yes but I enjoyed it more back then! HHH:worship rules!

 

Yes, without competition the WWE has loosened its belt and let the blubber hang out from its pants.

 

But now that TNA is on the scene hopefully they will relish the competition and shape up.

 

They've already shown fighting spirit by drafting Masters, Lashley, Kennedy and Burchill(whom i think was bound to join TNA) and letting some key insults "slip out."

 

What they need now is to rejoin Raw and Smackdown (cus this **** is too rediculous now) and start putting together matches of superstars from BOTH brands. That will draw huge and steal rating points from TNA for a good portion of time. The booking for HHH v Cena would be nice. So would Lashley v Masters (if marketed properly).

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Yes' date=' without competition the WWE has loosened its belt and let the blubber hang out from its pants.[/quote']

 

Agreed, no arguements from anyone really who follows WWE, i would have thought.

 

But now that TNA is on the scene hopefully they will relish the competition and shape up.

 

Unless TNA get some real financial backing, Vince'll never allow them to become a threat to his empire.

 

They've already shown fighting spirit by drafting Masters' date=' Lashley, Kennedy and Burchill(whom i think was bound to join TNA) and letting some key insults "slip out." [/quote']

 

Nice thoughts but I'm not sure that Vince is that worried about TNA. He should be more worried about losing his audience altogether from promoting a poor product.

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Interesting discussion folks.

 

I must admit I'm not really interested in this raw vs smackdown thing. I'd rather they had one big show held twice a week and more unpredictability as to who will appear. The raw and smackdown bond team is a false bonding. I'd rather see more genuine alliances rather than people being on the same team just because they're on the same show.

 

I've only been watching wrestling regularly since last year as previously I lived for 3 years without sky. Before that I remember the right to censor thing which I thought was quite good. I prefer wrestlers to make alliances more naturally due to events and storylines rather than because they're all on raw.

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Well I think after 2000 things were Ok in 2001 they had the best Wrestlemania in my opinion in 17 and had the best promotion and story for the matches and really made things great.

 

2002 came along and they made the biggest mistake they brought back the nWo which was Ok at first but was left to rot and Nash and Hall were made to look to much like Hogan's lessers.

That was forgotten

 

They pushed Brock Lesnar from nobody to champ in 5 months with no other title held and only one noticable feud and for some reason cost the storyline owner Ric Flair at the time the ownership of Raw and Vince got back both Raw and SD. In storyline terms and brought in Bischoff and Steph as GM's.

 

They had unified the title but they split it up to show that Raw and SD were separate shows and had a separate champion.

They did not bother to hold a tournament for the world title they just gave it to Triple H which was so stupid it was beyond me.

 

They brought HBK back as well, competiting in great matches Vs Triple H at Summerslam and in the first Elimination chamber and winning the title but dropping to Tripper again at Armageddon.

 

Meanwhile they traded a face Orton from SD to Raw and he got an injury and he did great heel promo's for a few weeks and on his return joined Evolution.

 

Lesnar lost his title for Big show who lost to Angle and that set up Face Lesnar Vs Heel Angle at WM 19

 

HHH took on Booker T for the title and HBK Vs Y2J plus Vince Vs Hogan. One of the worst Wrestlemanias since about 11.

 

Evolution dominated Raw while Lesnar did the same on SD in fact wrestling the then heel Cena in a match at Backlash. Cena gained great credibility in winning a tournament defeating, Eddie Guerrero, The Undertaker and Chris Benoit.

 

This was the start of Cena's mega push

Goldberg debuted against the Rock

Kane unmasked and was looking awesome but Shane killed his momentum.

Nothing much worthy happened in the fall except Lesnar was heel and Angle face and had a ironman match.

 

Orton won the IC title and Tripper held the gold all year.

 

Batista and Flair won the tag titles but looked a clumsy team and they lost the titles on two occasions.

 

Tripper dropped to Benoit at WM 20 in a great mainevent with HBK

Guerrero beat Lesnar at No way out and wrestled Kurt at Wrestlemania

 

Lesnar instead wrestled Goldberg with Austin as referee and Austin was more over than the other two who were booed from the building.

 

Then came JBL who was the self proclaimed Wrestling god who beat Guerrero and held the title till he dropped to Cena in a poor match but had a great match at Judgment day.

 

Orton in this time lost the IC title to Edge won the world title from Benoit. Turned from heel to face and kicked from Evolution and then lost the world title to the Game . All this happened from July to September.

 

With Orton story nearly ended they used Batista who was made to look great and Triple H jobbed to him at wrestlemania in a not to good match but ok.

 

Therefore that is more or less where we are today storyline wise

 

As you can tell WWE is not as good as it once was and I think I left out the alliance but that was another awful WWE invention for a WCW Vs WWE feud

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thanks to everyone for the replies, especially gladiator and CoTT. Much appreciated, well written and very informative!

 

I admit things do not sound as good in the past, but I really have to check out these new guys first and then make a proper judgement.

 

Hopefull they'll end the RAW/Smackdown thing soon, as it seems a lot of the more over wrestlers are on RAW and the amount of belts is just degrading.

 

Thanks again everyone

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Well I respect you for coming on here for asking. I think that must be on eof the wrost things to do, seeing that you probably had no idea on the Invasion angle at all and the fact that Ric Flair came in. I think it has slowly dropped through the years, it will look much worse for you because you would judge it from 2000 which is fair enough and understandable, but it has been getting worse in small doses.
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