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Who has done more for the wrestling industry?


Craig
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  1. 1. Which one?



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Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair?

 

Pretty simple, really? Who, out of these 2 all time greats, has done more for wrestling?

 

On one hand, you have "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan, a man that put wrestling on the map back in the 80's. Hogan literally made the way for wrestling. He helped bring it to what it is today, and has inspired several of todays wrestlers to become wrestlers. There is no denying, without Hogan, wrestling wouldn't be what it is today.

 

Then, you have "The NatureBoy" Ric Flair, who although never became as huge a draw as Hogan, was still a draw no doubt. (For completely different reasons.) Flair also inspired the other half of wrestlers of today, and it's hard to argue that Flair isn't one of the greatest of all time.

 

For completely different reasons, the 2 accomplished it all in there careers, but I have to ask the people of TWO, who has done the most for wrestling?

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Hogan by a mile. Flair has always been over, and a draw, but no-one in the wrestling buisness will ever achieve what Hogan has done. No-one.

 

I would say Austin did more for wrestling than Flair aswell, and he isn't close either.

 

I will say though, more and more people in the future will start to prefer Flair. I don't think you can be a huge Hogan fan, unless you were around during his ultra-face prime. When a new fan watches a Hogan match or promo, he won't feel it, like a lot of people did, when they were young, and thought wrestling was all real. If a new fan watches Flair, and sees how good he was in the ring, he will gain a lot of fans, unlike hogan. In the long run, Flair will overpass Hogan in terms of popularity, but that doesn't change the fact of what Hogan did for the buisness.

 

Excelent wrestlers, guys with loads of charisma will come and go, but there will only be one Hulk Hogan.

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Hogan by a mile. Flair has always been over, and a draw, but no-one in the wrestling buisness will ever achieve what Hogan has done. No-one.

 

I would say Austin did more for wrestling than Flair aswell, and he isn't close either.

 

I didn't even think of Stone Cold Steve Austin. I just was having this discussion with a friend who said Ric Flair did more, and thought I'd post it here.

 

Although, I do agree that Hogan has done so much for wrestling it isn't even funny. If it wasn't for him, chances are, we wouldn't be watching wrestling like we are now, as it never would have reached the popularity it did.

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I think Flair did more for wrestling for people who were aware of the business already. He wrestled all over the globe, against some of the world's most famous names for a very long period of time and became the measuring stick to which all great aspiring wrestlers would compare themselves to. On a worldwide front, I think Flair's contribution was more important in ways.

 

Hogan's success was one company's success for the most part. He helped make WWE what it is now by flying the flag for WrestleMania. As far as bringing in new fans in the US goes, Hogan is untouchable. I'm finding it very difficult to answer this thread's original question. As a smart wrestling fan, it pains me to say that Hogan just about scrapes it.

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I would say Hogan but it is a bit closer then what other people have said. Hogan got the idea from WWE and ran with it and thats why the WWE is so popular now in my opinion and thats why it still has it's name now with the whole world at least knowing what the WWE is. Ric Flair i believe done more for the technical side of the wrestling and done more for ideas of long matches, he did make the wrestling industry what it is today, but in small doses and not like Hogan who has changed and improved the face of wrestling as a whole.
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I think Flair did more for wrestling for people who were aware of the business already. He wrestled all over the globe, against some of the world's most famous names for a very long period of time and became the measuring stick to which all great aspiring wrestlers would compare themselves to. On a worldwide front, I think Flair's contribution was more important in ways.

 

Hogan's success was one company's success for the most part. He helped make WWE what it is now by flying the flag for WrestleMania. As far as bringing in new fans in the US goes, Hogan is untouchable. I'm finding it very difficult to answer this thread's original question. As a smart wrestling fan, it pains me to say that Hogan just about scrapes it.

 

Good post. Agreed.

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Hogan, cant even be debated if your looking at it objectively. The WWF went mainstream on the back of Hulk Hogan and rode the Hulkamania wave for 10 years. Hulk Hogan and the WWF destroyed Ric Flair and the NWA head-to-head, there is pretty much all the proof you need. In direct competition with them BOTH in their prime at the same time, Hogan hammered Flair and the WWF hammered the NWA.

 

Hogan put the wrestling business on the mainstream map. Flair had more good matches (if you like and/or care for in-ring work), but he never actually really has done anything for wrestling. He was a good regional draw, nothing more, he was a fighting champion but that doesnt actually do anything to help the business grow...

 

The ONLY people who can be classed as people who have helped and done good for the business are the people who have helped it grow into something bigger...Flair never did that, and nobody did it as much as Hogan.

 

Austin drew bigger numbers and pulled more money than Hogan sure, but he did it in the house that Hogan built, Hogan did it from scratch, big difference. Plus, the huge difference in ticket prices helped Austin pull more money even though he drew less fans, and the fact that in the Attitude Era you didnt even need to leave your house to buy tickets and merchandise because of the internet, and in Hogans era you had to get up and go shopping for tickets and merch, or order over the phone through mail order which was harder to come by all make alot of difference and an unfair comparison.

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Hogan put the wrestling business on the mainstream map. Flair had more good matches (if you like care for in-ring work), but he never actually really has done anything for wrestling. He was a good regional draw, nothing more, he was a fighting champion but that doesnt actually do anything to help the business grow...

 

 

I think that sums it up really The way I see In the ring Flair was a better wrestler but Hogan was a bigger star

 

Eveyone knows who Hulk Hogan is even if they hate wrestling

 

I don't think the same could be said of Ric Flair

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Hogan put the wrestling business on the mainstream map. Flair had more good matches (if you like and/or care for in-ring work)' date=' but he never actually really has done anything for wrestling. [b']He was a good regional draw, nothing more[/b], he was a fighting champion but that doesnt actually do anything to help the business grow...

 

I disagree with that. Flair was a massive draw in the Far East. I think one of his matches with Antonio Inoki drew in the region of 150,000 live spectators. Hogan has never even come close to that.

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I disagree with that. Flair was a massive draw in the Far East. I think one of his matches with Antonio Inoki drew in the region of 150' date='000 live spectators. Hogan has never even come close to that.[/quote']Flair was most certainly NOT a massive draw in the far East. The shows you speak of drew 140,000 and 150,000 respectively over 2 days in Korea I believe, but Flair wasnt the draw there, come on man. It was an entire 2 days worth of huge shows filled to the brim with stars, Inoki gets more credit for drawing that than Flair, but lets be real here, in Korea they live under a strict government, or did at that time. It was the first entertainment they had had in years, Pez Whatley vs Duanne Gill could have headlined and it would have had the same crowds. Plus, dont kid yourself into thinking all those people actually paid to see that.

 

And how often, exactly, did Flair work in Japan? Not very. He wasnt a huge draw over there at all, no way. He was, as I said, a regional draw. He was a nationwide name throughout the US and known a little around the world, but nothing on the level of Hogan, not even CLOSE. He drew well in the Carolinas, Maryland and drew some decent crowds in Texas but that was when he worked with the Von Erichs and they were the draw there, not Flair.

 

As for Hogan not getting close, well 80 - 90,000 for WM3 is pretty damn impressive, as is 75,000 for a house show in Canada, 67,000 for WMVI and numerous other huge crowds he sold out. Hogan was a much much MUCH bigger draw than Flair could ever even dream of being.

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Ric Flair is probably the most influential wrestler of all time. He has probably influenced more young guys coming into the wrestling business than any other wrestler in history. He is a guy who will forever be pretty much universally respected by both his peers (well except Bret Hart, but what the hell does he know) and the fans. Like I've said before no one in wrestling history has ever combined the in ring skills with the performance aspect of wrestling as well as Ric Flair did. This is a guy who has remained influential, respected and relevant to wrestling in 4 different decades. Personally I probably would not be a wrestling fan if it wasn't for Ric Flair, however, as far as doing more for the wrestling business, Hogan is way ahead. Flair drew alot of money, but Hogan took wrestling to another level.
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Ric Flair is probably the most influential wrestler of all time. He has probably influenced more young guys coming into the wrestling business than any other wrestler in history. He is a guy who will forever be pretty much universally respected by both his peers (well except Bret Hart' date=' but what the hell does he know) and the fans. Like I've said before no one in wrestling history has ever combined the in ring skills with the performance aspect of wrestling as well as Ric Flair did. This is a guy who has remained influential, respected and relevant to wrestling in 4 different decades. Personally I probably would not be a wrestling fan if it wasn't for Ric Flair, however, as far as doing more for the wrestling business, Hogan is way ahead. Flair drew alot of money, but Hogan took wrestling to another level.[/quote']Yeah this is a good post. Even a Flair mark is being honest here, and its not as if being less of a draw or having done less for wrestling than Hogan is a bad thing like I'm sure alot of Hogan haters will make it out to be. Hey, somebody has to be the top guy, the leader of the pack, so-to-speak. It was Hogan, thats just how it was. Flair was extremely influential, and is extremely popular, AND more respected by other wrestlers than Hogan ever will be. But, he simply didnt do as much to help the growth of wrestling and the widespread mainstream popularity as Hogan.

 

As for Bret Hart, I think with the amount he droned on about Montreal, he might have lost some of the respect he craved so badly. Although, he hasnt been nearly as bad lately, so maybe people are forgetting he moaned about it for so long...

 

Good post, Naitch.

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Flair was most certainly NOT a massive draw in the far East. The shows you speak of drew 140,000 and 150,000 respectively over 2 days in Korea I believe, but Flair wasnt the draw there, come on man. It was an entire 2 days worth of huge shows filled to the brim with stars, Inoki gets more credit for drawing that than Flair, but lets be real here, in Korea they live under a strict government, or did at that time. It was the first entertainment they had had in years, Pez Whatley vs Duanne Gill could have headlined and it would have had the same crowds. Plus, dont kid yourself into thinking all those people actually paid to see that.

 

And how often, exactly, did Flair work in Japan? Not very. He wasnt a huge draw over there at all, no way. He was, as I said, a regional draw. He was a nationwide name throughout the US and known a little around the world, but nothing on the level of Hogan, not even CLOSE. He drew well in the Carolinas, Maryland and drew some decent crowds in Texas but that was when he worked with the Von Erichs and they were the draw there, not Flair.

 

As for Hogan not getting close, well 80 - 90,000 for WM3 is pretty damn impressive, as is 75,000 for a house show in Canada, 67,000 for WMVI and numerous other huge crowds he sold out. Hogan was a much much MUCH bigger draw than Flair could ever even dream of being.

 

That still doesn't change the fact that Flair wrestled in front of 150,000 fans, something Hogan has never done. I'm not using it as evidence that Flair has done more for the wrestling business than Hogan has, because he hasn't, I'm just saying it's a concrete fact. There are many ways of twisting an argument in one's favour and facts and stats is one way. I choose not to do so in this case because I know Hogan has been more popular but I just want to state this as one of those NAH-NAH-NAH-NA-NA-NA! things where Flair beats Hogan because I am a Ric Flair fan and have never been a Hogan fan.

 

However, here's some food for thought. Let's make a comparison. Metallica have sold far more records around the world than say, Motorhead, despite beginning much later, yet Motorhead were the first heavy metal band to bring the speed of punk rock to the genre essentially creating the genre Metallica excelled at. So who do you rate as the more influential band or the band that has done more for the heavy metal industry? Tricky stuff isn't it?

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That still doesn't change the fact that Flair wrestled in front of 150' date='000 fans, something Hogan has never done.[/quote']But what does that mean? Flair worked in front of a huge crowd that he didnt draw, so what? The Killer Bee's worked at WrestleMania 3, in front of 80-90,000 people, so going by your logic, the Killer Bee's have done more for wrestling than the Undertaker, HHH, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin and everybody else who havent worked in front of that size crowd...so, it might not change the fact that Flair worked a bigger crowd than Hogan, but just because he worked a bigger crowd, doesnt mean he is a big draw, and certainly doesnt mean he isnt the draw Hogan was.

 

I'm not using it as evidence that Flair has done more for the wrestling business than Hogan has' date=' because he hasn't, I'm just saying it's a concrete fact. There are many ways of twisting an argument in one's favour and facts and stats is one way. I choose not to do so in this case because I know Hogan has been more popular but I just want to state this as one of those [i']NAH-NAH-NAH-NA-NA-NA![/i] things where Flair beats Hogan because I am a Ric Flair fan and have never been a Hogan fan.
Well, its fair enough showing favouratism to your favourites, but it doesnt really help your argument in this instance...

 

However' date=' here's some food for thought. Let's make a comparison. Metallica have sold far more records around the world than say, Motorhead, despite beginning much later, yet Motorhead were the first heavy metal band to bring the speed of punk rock to the genre essentially creating the genre Metallica excelled at. So who do you rate as the more influential band or the band that has done more for the heavy metal industry? Tricky stuff isn't it?[/quote']I have no idea about heavy metal or anything like that, I cant comment. (Although I'd say whoever put metal on the map more than the other and helped it grow and progress further than the other band, has done more, thats obvious). I DO know pro wrestling, and the fact is that Hogan has done more to help wrestling (and probably more to hurt it in some cases over the years) than Ric Flair could ever EVER dream of doing. That is the question being debated here, and that is the answer. Nothing else comes into play, its straight up.

 

Hogan > Flair

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But what does that mean? Flair worked in front of a huge crowd that he didnt draw' date=' so what? The Killer Bee's worked at WrestleMania 3, in front of 80-90,000 people, so going by your logic, the Killer Bee's have done more for wrestling than the Undertaker, HHH, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin and everybody else who havent worked in front of that size crowd...so, it might not change the fact that Flair worked a bigger crowd than Hogan, but just because he worked a bigger crowd, doesnt mean he is a big draw, and certainly doesnt mean he isnt the draw Hogan was.[/quote']

 

Flair topped the card, Killer Bees did not.

 

Well' date=' its fair enough showing favouratism to your favourites, but it doesnt really help your argument in this instance...[/quote']

 

What argument? Am I arguing?

 

I have no idea about heavy metal or anything like that' date=' I cant comment. (Although I'd say whoever put metal on the map more than the other and helped it grow and progress further than the other band, has done more, thats obvious).[/quote']

 

So popularity defeats innovation? Does that mean the guy who sells the most airplanes is more relevant than the guy who invented it? There's two sides to every coin, and there is in the Flair/Hogan debate too.

 

Hogan > Flair

 

In regards to drawing, yes. In regards to actual matches, no.

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However, here's some food for thought. Let's make a comparison. Metallica have sold far more records around the world than say, Motorhead, despite beginning much later, yet Motorhead were the first heavy metal band to bring the speed of punk rock to the genre essentially creating the genre Metallica excelled at. So who do you rate as the more influential band or the band that has done more for the heavy metal industry? Tricky stuff isn't it?

 

 

Metallica are the more influential band. Take a look around at how many Hetfield imitators there are today. They took unashamedly aggressive, non-commercial heavy metal into stadiums (none of Maiden, Sabbath, Zeppelin etc were that aggressive). Hey I love Motorhead and they inspired Metallica (along with Diamond Head :eek ) and Lemmy is a Rock GOD (genuinely, not in the JBL sense)

 

Hogan clearly has done more for wrestling than Ric Flair. My mom and dad would know Hulk Hogan but not Ric Flair and a random survey round the world would give you the same results, fairly self explanatory evidence.

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Flair topped the card' date=' Killer Bees did not.[/quote']Doesnt make any difference, Flair didnt draw the crowd, either did the Bee's. Are you honestly trying to insinuate that Ric Flair is the reason, or one of the main reasons, that crowds of 140,000 and 150,000 turned up to watch wrestling shows in Korea? No way.

 

What argument? Am I arguing?
Your side of the arguement, dabate, story...whatever word you want to use, you know what I meant.

 

So popularity defeats innovation? Does that mean the guy who sells the most airplanes is more relevant than the guy who invented it? There's two sides to every coin' date=' and there is in the Flair/Hogan debate too.[/quote']Look, you can try and complicate it in any way you wish, and you can try and dress it up however you want by turning it into something it isnt, but the SIMPLE FACT IS, Hulk Hogan has done more for pro wrestling than Flair ever has. Disagree if you wish, but you will be in the wrong. Is it hard to understand that Hulk Hogan was the man who put the sport on the map, crossed it over to the mainstream, helped it turn into an international powerhouse, helped to bring about merchandising, allowed it to appear and be a success on PPV...in-ring work doesnt mean a damn thing! Lots of people have had alot better matches than Hulk Hogan, but NONE of them did anything more to help the growth, expansion, crossover appeal or anything else than Hulk Hogan.

 

In regards to drawing' date=' yes. In regards to actual matches, no.[/quote']Yes, and drawing is what helps wrestling grow, match quality doesnt if it isnt drawing. Bret Hart and HBK are two of the better performers ever, HBK being the greatest worker ever IMO, but neither of them with their great matches have ever drawn what Hogan has...

 

Hogan did more for wrestling than Flair did, thats the way it is no matter how you want to weave in and out of it.

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