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Ric Flair Overated???


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Not taking his latest wwe run into account. Do you believe Ric Flair to be as great as people made out. On the mic the guy was/is a blast he can cut great promos i prefer his mic work as a heel but hes great in either role. But in ring is where i have a problem with flair. I have the best of ric flair dvd and to be honest i cant see the big deal and how people can call him one of the best in ring talents is beyond me!!! Now let get one thing straight i found the dvd not be good and most of the matches enjoyable but once you have seen one ric flair match you have pretty much seen the lot imo. Most of Ric flairs matches follow the same basic formula which i find a little tedious. Flair can work a crowd and cut a promo as well as anyone theres ever been but in the ring he doesn't match up to the likes of Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Dynamite Kid or Shawn Michaels. These guys can work numerous different styles to great effect take Angle for instance before he injured his neck, he can bral better than most look at his breathtaking street fight with shane mcmahon, he is obviously sound technically see his encounters with benoit,eddie and he even pulled a couple of blinders out of the undertaker. He carried Hogan to one of his best matches ever at kotr 2002, and before the neck injury he could also hit some great high flying stuff that moonsault angle used to hit was great!

 

My point being Angle could and still can to a certain extent mix things up he can look brutal,technical,high flying (alot less now), or a mixture.

 

Flair couldn't his in ring style consisted mainly of chops, Eye gauges, low blows,chops,a few suplexes, a failed high risk move, some more chops, and the least lethal finisher of all time the Figure four leglock which very seldom gets the job done. Now Flair could have a good match with his limited arsenal and put in with the right opponent i.e Ricky Steamboat he could have a great match. But for me his lack or versatility and his weak in ring style, (by weak ring style i mean his work didn't look belieavable alot of the time whereas if you look at angle or benoit while they dont work overly stiff everything they do looks like its gonna hurt) he falls just short of being great in the ring.

 

As an overall package he is definately great but as for in ring work he falls just short imo.

 

Agree? Disagree?

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It depends on hwo you look at it. If you look at what moves he did/does, and take them into account, no he isn't that great, but it's how he brought it all toghether, and made a psychological match with very limited workers. While he didn't do major things, he made the small things count, which is a rough quote of the Jake DVD. Jake and Flair are the same in a way. Neither did the high risk moves, but made everything they ddi do count, which is far mor eimportant.

 

I'd rather get behind a match for storytelling than loads of misplaced high spots personally.

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I agree with Jack' date=' Flair is a great wrestler, the rumble he won from like 3rd entry or something was one of the finest performancies I've seen.[/quote']

 

Just a quick point on rrumble 92 not to take anything away from rics great performance and possibly his finsest hour imo, that match wouldnt have been nearly as entertaining without Bobby The Brain heenan on commentary he was almost as much as a star as flair was on that night.

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Even at Taboo Tuesday, Ric Flair proved why he's still great. His match with HHH was the best of the night by a country mile (well for me anyway). At 56 he's still showing his younger colleagues how it should be done.

 

He's a great ambassador for wrestling (anyone who wants to enter the industry should model themselves on Ric Flair), and a tremendous servant to the business over the past 30+ years.

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I think the fact that Flair is such a great story teller has enabled him to have such a long career. On a "great wrestler" level, he's not as good as the likes of Kurt Angle or Chris Benoit, but in terms of a wrestling performer he is far better than anyone today, and better than most people in history for that matter.
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Flair was past his prime by 1991 not that he hasnt had some cracking matches since and entertained the hell out of me to this day,but over the years the moves have gradually phased themselves down to low blow,figure four,chop etc.

Flair does deserve to be in the small bracket of people we could truly argue as `greatest ever`,i am a little sad though WWE continues to push him as he isnt `the man` as i remember.

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I think people make more of Flair then he deserved really, he was limited in the ring all his career, and every match he does/did is pretty much the same

 

In my opinion he was not as great as people make out

 

You have seen the style and quality of 80s wrestling, most of it is comsidered "limited" by todays standards. To compare Flair in his prime to Angle in his prime is completly out of context. Storytelling in a match is/was a specialty and Flairs mic work was the best of his era and his character is one that has been played many times since but still doesnt compare to the original (just ask HHH)

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You have seen the style and quality of 80s wrestling' date=' most of it is comsidered "limited" by todays standards. To compare Flair in his prime to Angle in his prime is completly out of context. Storytelling in a match is/was a specialty and Flairs mic work was the best of his era and his character is one that has been played many times since but still doesnt compare to the original (just ask HHH)[/quote']

The way I see it tho is that Flair has never been able to change his style, I watched Flair in the late 80's on tapes and live in the early 90's when I first started watching wrestling and to this day I can pretty much say what move is comming next from him like I could after seeing him a few times back then.

 

He never mixes it up is my point, never anything different, and that is not what I consider the greatest wresteler of all time, the greats moved wit hthe times changed their routine unlike Flair

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Not taking his latest wwe run into account. Do you believe Ric Flair to be as great as people made out.

 

No, he was probably better than people made out. I mean, how is Ric Flair overrated? Is he inside the top 3 best mic workers of all time? Yes he is. Is he one of the best wrestlers of all time? Yes he is. Is he the single greatest all round performer in the history of wrestling? Yes he is. These in my opinion are facts and although some people may not necessarily like Ric Flair, I think you can still appreciate someone without having to like them. Charisma, mic skills, wrestling ability, tremendous in ring psychology, great heel, great babyface, drew money. Flair is the total package. NO ONE in the history of wrestling has EVER been able to combine the in ring wrestling skills with the performance aspect of the business as well as Ric Flair did.

 

But in ring is where i have a problem with flair. I have the best of ric flair dvd and to be honest i cant see the big deal and how people can call him one of the best in ring talents is beyond me!!! Now let get one thing straight i found the dvd not be good and most of the matches enjoyable but once you have seen one ric flair match you have pretty much seen the lot imo. Most of Ric flairs matches follow the same basic formula which i find a little tedious.

 

To say that if you have seen one Ric Flair match you have seen them all is pretty ridiculous. You saw the DVD, the matches on that DVD against a variety of opponents were all different. His cage match with Harley Race was different from his match with Dusty Rhodes which was different from his match with Barry Windham which was different from his match with Steamboat which was different from his I Quitmatch with Terry Funk which was different from his match with Sting which was differ...well you get the picture. Flair could work some of the most technically sound, fantastic wrestling matches you will ever see with Ricky Steamboat (which were better than any so called technical matches Angle or Michaels have ever had) and then a few months later work a great main event style, hate filled brawls with Terry Funk (which were better brawls than Angle or Michaels have ever had). He could take wrestlers who whilst having great charisma were limited in ring such as a Dusty Rhodes or a Sting and he could make them look better than they could ever make themselves look. Flair could adjust himself in that ring to suit whatever kind of opponent he was facing better than just about anyone ever. He had a number of great matches with a variety of opponents ranging from average guys like Lex Luger to great wrestlers such as Ricky Steamboat. He could even have good matches with the flyers. I remember him having a good match with Mysterio in WCW in 99 I think it was.

 

but in the ring he doesn't match up to the likes of Kurt Angle' date=' Chris Benoit, Dynamite Kid or Shawn Michaels.[/quote']

 

In ring, Dynamite Kid and Chris Benoit maybe are better than Flair, but Michaels and Angle aren't even in the same league as the guy. You want to watch a guy completely disregard psychology and completely no sell any of the work done in the match, thus completely exposing the wrestling business just to do one of his idiotic trademark spots, then hey, go right ahead and watch a Michaels or Angle match. You want to watch a guy with hilariously comical selling and bumping ability, then by all means watch Shawn Michaels. It still makes me laugh when people call Michaels the best performer in wrestling, despite the fact that he isn't even as good now as he was a year ago and even then he still sucked. You want to talk about a guy wrestling the same old formula, look at Michaels' work from the last 3 years and tell me he doesn't do the same, old lame crap he always does in every match. It amazes me when people even try to compare Michaels or Angle to Ric Flair. Flair is better than both those guys in every single area. Oh, but I forgot Flair doesn't do any top rope moves, so he must suck. You want to do a post about someone being overrated, do one about Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels.

 

These guys can work numerous different styles to great effect take Angle for instance before he injured his neck' date=' he can bral better than most look at his breathtaking street fight with shane mcmahon,[/quote']

 

'Breathtaking'? Since when was a glorified backyard garbage wrestling match which just happened to be on PPV 'breathtaking'? Shane McMahon kills himself on PPV in the vain hope we might respect him as a 'rassler' and all a sudden it is 'breathtaking'? Hey, New Jack jumped off a balcony, man that was 'breathtaking'. Watch the Flair vs. Funk matches or the Vader vs. Flair match from Starrcade 93 to see a real wrestling brawl.

 

he is obviously sound technically see his encounters with benoit' date='eddie[/quote']

 

Yeah, didn't really like any of the Eddie matches, thought they should have been alot better than they were, considering Angle was in there with Eddie F'n Guerrero. But the Benoit matches were indeed great, however Angle was wrestling Chris Benoit. I could have a good match with Chris Benoit. Angle is a guy who against a great opponent who is better than he is, like Benoit or Steve Austin can have a great match and yes he is a guy who can have good matches with inferior opponents such as John Cena, but does that make him better than Flair? Of course not.

 

and he even pulled a couple of blinders out of the undertaker.

 

Don't really understand what you mean by 'pulled a couple of blinders out of the undertaker.' People talk about The Undertaker as if he is some horrible worker. Ok, alot of people dislike him for a variety of reasons, but Taker is so much better in ring than people give him credit for and I don't even like Taker. Very few people have had good matches with Cena and Orton. Taker was one of those people who managed to drag good matches out of them.

 

He carried Hogan to one of his best matches ever at kotr 2002' date='[/quote']

 

I can't be the only person who hated that match can I? That match wasn't even the best match Hogan had in 2002 never mind one of the best matches he ever had. Hogan had a much better match with Lesnar a few weeks later on Smackdown.

 

and before the neck injury he could also hit some great high flying stuff that moonsault angle used to hit was great!

 

My point being Angle could and still can to a certain extent mix things up he can look brutal,technical,high flying (alot less now), or a mixture.

 

So basically Flair is better brawler than Angle, a better technical wrestler than Angle (and don't give me that 'Angle won an Olympic Gold Medal' crap. I could give a fiddlers fart about amateur wrestling. In professional wrestling, Angle has rarely, if ever, shown me that he is a great technical wrestler. Flair has.), but because Flair doesn't do a Moonsault, God only knows that makes him worse than Angle. Some skinny, white kid on the indies who weighs 130lbs soaking weight, carrying an anvil can do a Twisting Senton Shooting Star Dragon Press 180 360 911 999 7-11 Splash, does that mean he is better than Angle? Of course not. Since when was high flying moves the difference between being a great wrestler and being an overrated one?

 

Flair couldn't his in ring style consisted mainly of chops' date=' Eye gauges, low blows,chops,a few suplexes, a failed high risk move, some more chops, and the least lethal finisher of all time the Figure four leglock which very seldom gets the job done. But for me his lack or versatility and his weak in ring style, (by weak ring style i mean his work didn't look belieavable alot of the time whereas if you look at angle or benoit while they dont work overly stiff everything they do looks like its gonna hurt) he falls just short of being great in the ring.[/quote']

 

I HATE the argument sometimes used by people against Flair that he doesn't have a wide variety of moves. If the amount of moves you had counted then Nova would be the greatest wrestler of all time. Steve Austin is in my opinion second only to Flair as the greatest all round performer in wrestling history and he was an absolute workhorse of a wrestler, yet people stupidly criticise him by calling him simply a ‘Punch/Kick/Stunner’ wrestler. The amount of moves you have doesn’t matter at all, this isn’t Mortal frigging Kombat. If you want to go basic with your argument against Flair, then how is a stiff chop which turns a guys chest to jelly not believable? Flair could work as a heel who backs off and it was believable, he could work as the relentless babyface who keeps coming at you and it was believable, he could take an ass kicking, bleed all over the arena and still come back and it was believable, simply because just about no one in wrestling history can tell a story in that ring the way Flair can. His offense and its so called lack of believability doesn't really matter at all. Hell, just about everything in wrestling is not believable. A guy can go in there be punched in the head and face 50 times in a match and not have anything happen to him.

 

Agree? Disagree?

 

So yeah disagree. In ring, Flair is easily one of the best wrestlers ever.

Edited by Naitch
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I HATE the argument sometimes used by people against Flair that he doesn't have a wide variety of moves. If the amount of moves you had counted then Nova would be the greatest wrestler of all time. Steve Austin is in my opinion second only to Flair as the greatest all round performer in wrestling history and he was an absolute workhorse of a wrestler, yet people stupidly criticise him by calling him simply a ‘Punch/Kick/Stunner’ wrestler. The amount of moves you have doesn’t matter at all, this isn’t Mortal frigging Kombat. If you want to go basic with your argument against Flair, then how is a stiff chop which turns a guys chest to jelly not believable? Flair could work as a heel who backs off and it was believable, he could work as the relentless babyface who keeps coming at you and it was believable, he could take an ass kicking, bleed all over the arena and still come back and it was believable, simply because just about no one in wrestling history can tell a story in that ring the way Flair can. His offense and its so called lack of believability doesn't really matter at all. Hell, just about everything in wrestling is not believable. A guy can go in there be punched in the head and face 50 times in a match and not have anything happen to him.

 

I think one thing about the movesets, Flair is able to make each move he does seem fresh in every match, and is even able to make it look like he could win the match with it. In his match with Angle a while back, he had the crowd thinking he was going to beat Angle with a simple suplex. In his most recent match, he had the crowd popping just for simple moves, making it look like he would win. But I would definitely have to say, Ric Flair is without a doubt, one of, if not THE greatest wrestler of all time.

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Can't the guy retire? I mean sure I respect him' date=' Flair Vs Sting I would ay to see, but look at him now![/quote']

If you mean Flair vs. Sting now then i'd not pay to see it, both are past their prime by a very long way

 

Flair the more he goes on wretling now is losing alot of respect from lots of people, esspecially when on house shows he drops is pants to bear his a** for a cheap laugh!

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If you mean Flair vs. Sting now then i'd not pay to see it, both are past their prime by a very long way

 

Flair the more he goes on wretling now is losing alot of respect from lots of people, esspecially when on house shows he drops is pants to bear his a** for a cheap laugh!

 

How the mighty have fallen....

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