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The REAL Icon


Paul
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You know, I have recently been thinking about wrestling and the legacy left by the likes of Rock, Austin and Hogan, and I have come to a slightly controversial view on who was the most important wrestler: NONE of them, it is Andre the Giant!!!

 

 

Andre was the first wrestler to cross to the mainstream (before Hogan had even joined WWF) and paved the way for Hulkamania to become as big as it did. Andre could have refused to job to Hogan at Mania and stopped Hulkamania dead, Andre could at any time demanded the WWF title and got it becouse he was amazingly over (well, until about 86, then no way would Vince let Hogan lose, unless Andre shot).

 

So I say as much as Hogan et al did for wrestling and the WWF/E it is thanks to Andre for paving the way for them to appeal to the mainstream TV audiance.

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You know' date=' I have recently been thinking about wrestling and the legacy left by the likes of Rock, Austin and Hogan, and I have come to a slightly controversial view on who was the most important wrestler: NONE of them, it is Andre the Giant!!![/quote']

 

Nah, there is no way its Andre, not a chance...

 

Andre was the first wrestler to cross to the mainstream (before Hogan had even joined WWF) and paved the way for Hulkamania to become as big as it did. Andre could have refused to job to Hogan at Mania and stopped Hulkamania dead' date=' Andre could at any time demanded the WWF title and got it becouse he was amazingly over (well, until about 86, then no way would Vince let Hogan lose, unless Andre shot).[/quote']

 

He was? When? I never heard of Andre the Giant in the mainstream before Hogan joined the WWF. If he was, it wasnt very well known. He also never paved the way for Hulkamania, how did he? He never made the company a global household name, Hulk Hogan did. He never paved the way for PPV, merchandising, TV deals etc...Hulk Hogan did.

 

He wouldnt have refused to job to Hogan at WM3, because he knew Hogan was the bigger star and if he refused, he simply wouldnt have got the match, Vince would have given it to somebody else. Plus, Vince would have fired him on the spot if he did something stupid like refusing to job. Andre wasnt a big enough star to cause damage to the companies future and revenue intake to be safe from getting fired.

 

He couldnt have demanded the title either, IMO. Sure, he was over, but lets not kid ourselves, he was never over huge. He was never this huge star who got amazing pops and had fans going crazy. He was popular, but he wasnt over like you make out, and he wasnt a guy who could carry the company as World champion.

 

So I say as much as Hogan et al did for wrestling and the WWF/E it is thanks to Andre for paving the way for them to appeal to the mainstream TV audiance.

 

Nah I dont see it, at all. He wasnt mainstream. Andre the Giant was never a huge household name Globally. He was pretty well know to wrestling fans, but if you asked Joe Public to name a wrestler, even at Andres peak, I'm sure nobody would say his name.

 

Andre was a pretty big name in his day, when wrestling was a regional, territorial 'sport', but he certainly isnt the biggest Icon in wrestling, and most definately doesnt even come close to Hulk Hogan, IMO.

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We can "thank" Sgt. Slaughter for being injured too, because it was HIM that was supposed to take on the Iron Sheik at WrestleMania I. If Slaughter wasn't injured, Hogan wouldn't have won the title that night.

 

Andre is a great Icon but it's hard to acknowledge someone that has been dead for over 10 years.

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We can "thank" Sgt. Slaughter for being injured too' date=' because it was HIM that was supposed to take on the Iron Sheik at WrestleMania I. If Slaughter wasn't injured, Hogan wouldn't have won the title that night.[/quote']

 

Nope, thats not true. Hogan won the WWF title from the Iron Shiek in January 1984, over a year BEFORE WrestleMania 1 in March 1985.

 

Sarge was never going to get the shot and win the title. Vince promised Hogan the title if he left the AWA and came to the WWF, so nobody was getting that shot except Hogan on January 23, 1984. Including Slaughter.

 

Also, you mentioned WrestleMania. Lets also set the record straight on this one too: If Hulk Hogan never came over from the AWA and won the title, there wouldnt have ever even been a WrestleMania. So, we can thank him as much as we thank Vince, for giving us WM.

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He was? When? I never heard of Andre the Giant in the mainstream before Hogan joined the WWF. If he was' date=' it wasnt very well known. He also never paved the way for Hulkamania, how did he? He never made the company a global household name, Hulk Hogan did. He never paved the way for PPV, merchandising, TV deals etc...Hulk Hogan did. [/quote']

 

Watch his Biography on the Biography channel. Andre was on TV talk shows in the 70's (just as an example). As for films he was in Conan The Destroyer in 86. Oh and from his official site:

 

Andre's fame also opened the door to Hollywood. He made his acting debut in 1975 as "Big Foot" in The Six Million Dollar Man. Andre enjoyed the experience and went on to appear in television shows including B.J. and the Bear, The Fall Guy and The Greatest American Hero, and movies such as Conan the Destroyer, Micki and Maude, and Trading Mom. His favorite role, and the one for which he is best remembered, was the lovable giant "Fezzik" in Rob Reiner's classic The Princess Bride.

 

 

 

He wouldnt have refused to job to Hogan at WM3' date=' because he knew Hogan was the bigger star and if he refused, he simply wouldnt have got the match, Vince would have given it to somebody else. Plus, Vince would have fired him on the spot if he did something stupid like refusing to job. Andre wasnt a big enough star to cause damage to the companies future and revenue intake to be safe from getting fired.[/quote']

 

Actually Hogan was terrified of that match becouse at any time Andre could have destroyed him. And if Andre destroted Hulkamania do you really think he wouldnt have become 'The Man' in the eyes of the marks back then?

 

He couldnt have demanded the title either' date=' IMO. Sure, he was over, but lets not kid ourselves, he was never over huge. He was never this huge star who got amazing pops and had fans going crazy. He was popular, but he wasnt over like you make out, and he wasnt a guy who could carry the company as World champion.[/quote']

 

But he was, Andre is one of the biggest names and one of the most over people of all time! Sure he may have been not as over as Hogan became, but it was Andre who first got the attention to wrestling. Thats why he is the man IMO.

 

 

 

Andre was a pretty big name in his day' date=' when wrestling was a regional, territorial 'sport', but he certainly isnt the biggest Icon in wrestling, and most definately doesnt even come close to Hulk Hogan, IMO.[/quote']

 

Now I wont argue that Hogan became bigger than Andre by an amazing distance, but it was due to the work that Andre put in first. Heck, when I think Hogan the first picture in my mind was the bodyslam on andre- think about it! ;)

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Nope, thats not true. Hogan won the WWF title from the Iron Shiek in January 1984, over a year BEFORE WrestleMania 1 in March 1985.

 

Sarge was never going to get the shot and win the title. Vince promised Hogan the title if he left the AWA and came to the WWF, so nobody was getting that shot except Hogan on January 23, 1984. Including Slaughter.

 

Also, you mentioned WrestleMania. Lets also set the record straight on this one too: If Hulk Hogan never came over from the AWA and won the title, there wouldnt have ever even been a WrestleMania. So, we can thank him as much as we thank Vince, for giving us WM.

 

 

Yeah you're right there. I got my dates mixed up. A few wrestlers told me at one time that it was Slaughter who was supposed to win the title from Sheik.

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Yeah you're right there. I got my dates mixed up. A few wrestlers told me at one time that it was Slaughter who was supposed to win the title from Sheik.

 

I wouldnt doubt that it may have been in the works, because they did feud previously. But, on the date Hogan won it, it was never any question who was getting the shot, Hogan was promised it to jump from the AWA.

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Watch his Biography on the Biography channel. Andre was on TV talk shows in the 70's (just as an example). As for films he was in Conan The Destroyer in 86. Oh and from his official site:

 

I know he was on talk shows, but he was as a sideshow attraction, it wasnt legit fame IMO. He was just a tall guy on TV. Its like when a lottery winner hits the jackpot and goes on the talk shows. Not real fame, just an appearance that is quickly forgotten.

 

As for Andre being in Conan the Destroyer, thats not too. The guy who played the 'Mirror monster' in that movie was the late Englishman 'Bomber' Pat Roach, from UK indy wrestling and Auf weidesien Pet fame.

 

Actually Hogan was terrified of that match becouse at any time Andre could have destroyed him. And if Andre destroted Hulkamania do you really think he wouldnt have become 'The Man' in the eyes of the marks back then?

 

I wouldnt put any stock into much of what Hogan says. He knew, he KNEW 100%, that Andre would never in a million years have shot on him at WM3. They were friends, for a start. Hogan was just putting Andre over, saying he was such a good man to not shoot on him etc. But no, Andre would never have done it.

 

And lets be honest here, at WM3 Andre was a couple short months removed from MAJOR back surgery, you could see the back support/girdle he was wearing at WM3. Hogan could have decked Andre at WM3 if he wanted. Andre was no off balance and bad on his feet at that time, and Hogan was only a couple inches shorter and stronger than an Ox, plus alot quicker than Andre. He could have nailed him hard in the back of the legs, taken Andre down and pinned him legit if needed, no doubt about it.

 

But he was' date=' Andre is one of the biggest names and one of the most over people of all time! Sure he may have been not as over as Hogan became, but it was Andre who [b']first got the attention to wrestling[/b]. Thats why he is the man IMO.

 

He was a big name, and was over, but nowhere near big enough to take the WWF to global expansion. If he was, why did they never do it with Andre?

 

Now I wont argue that Hogan became bigger than Andre by an amazing distance' date=' but it was due to the work that Andre put in first. Heck, when I think Hogan the first picture in my mind was the bodyslam on andre- think about it! ;)[/quote']

 

No. Hogan was already becoming huge in the AWA due to his Rocky 3 fame. If anybody is to thank for Hogans big break, its Sylvester Stallone. Hogan was over huge in the WWF from 1984 - 1987, before he was even ever associated with Andre, barring a few tag matches. Andre didnt put any work in to make Hogan, Hogan was already made come WM3.

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I know he was on talk shows' date=' but he was as a sideshow attraction, it wasnt legit fame IMO. He was just a tall guy on TV. Its like when a lottery winner hits the jackpot and goes on the talk shows. Not real fame, just an appearance that is quickly forgotten.[/quote']

 

That lasted over a decade? He was on talk shows in the 70s and through into the 80s!

 

As for Andre being in Conan the Destroyer' date=' thats not too. The guy who played the 'Mirror monster' in that movie was the late Englishman 'Bomber' Pat Roach, from UK indy wrestling and Auf weidesien Pet fame. [/quote']

 

Sorry, are you saying andre wasnt in it? or just not important in it?

 

 

 

I wouldnt put any stock into much of what Hogan says. He knew, he KNEW 100%, that Andre would never in a million years have shot on him at WM3. They were friends, for a start. Hogan was just putting Andre over, saying he was such a good man to not shoot on him etc. But no, Andre would never have done it.

 

And lets be honest here, at WM3 Andre was a couple short months removed from MAJOR back surgery, you could see the back support/girdle he was wearing at WM3. Hogan could have decked Andre at WM3 if he wanted. Andre was no off balance and bad on his feet at that time, and Hogan was only a couple inches shorter and stronger than an Ox, plus alot quicker than Andre. He could have nailed him hard in the back of the legs, taken Andre down and pinned him legit if needed, no doubt about it.

 

 

I have to disagree that Hogan copuld have taken him, but thats opinion 100%!

 

He was a big name' date=' and was over, but nowhere near big enough to take the WWF to global expansion. If he was, why did they never do it with Andre?[/quote']

 

Becouse I agre he WASNT big enough! I am just saying he was the one who made wrestling mainstream enough for Hogan to capitalise on! Like how Rock capitalised on Hogans sucsess to become an even BIGGER mainstream celebraty (IMO that is, I know Hogan will allways be the man for you Belty).

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As astonishing as it sounds' date=' I do complete agree with beltmark. Of course Andre was very important to the success of the WWF, but Hogan was always "the man" and the real icon.[/quote']

 

 

Sorry, I think the title of the thread gives the wrong impression of what I mean. Yes Hogan was the biggest star and made WWF shedloads, but I truely belive that without Andre Hogan wouldnt have been as big (or at least not as quickly).

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That lasted over a decade? He was on talk shows in the 70s and through into the 80s!

 

ok, so what talk shows were they and when? I mean, if they were such big time, famous appearances, why doesnt anybody remember them? I'm not disputing he was, but he probably make 2-3 appearances in 15 years.

 

Sorry' date=' are you saying andre wasnt in it? or just not important in it?[/quote']

 

He wasnt in it. He was in the Princess Bride, and played a great role. He was more famous for that, than being a wrestler, I'd bet!

 

I have to disagree that Hogan copuld have taken him' date=' but thats opinion 100%![/quote']

 

Thats fair enough. Mine is just opinion too. Without it happening, we can never say for sure, but IMO, Hogan would have taken him, if needed, at WM3, and put him away.

 

Becouse I agre he WASNT big enough! I am just saying he was the one who made wrestling mainstream enough for Hogan to capitalise on! Like how Rock capitalised on Hogans sucsess to become an even BIGGER mainstream celebraty (IMO that is' date=' I know Hogan will allways be the man for you Belty).[/quote']

 

I dont think Andre took wrestling mainstream, though, thats my point. Wrestling wasnt mainstream, before Hogan. Andy Kauffman and Jerry Lawler gave wrestling a more mainstream boost than Andre the Giant ever did, IMO.

 

As for Rock being a bigger mainstream celeb, I'd agree. He is a bigger mainstream, Hollywood star than Hogan, for me to disagree would just be stupid. Hogan is the bigger name in wrestling, though. Hell, he is the biggest name in wrestler ever.

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http://www.andrethegiant.com/library.html

 

 

The last one on the list! :)

 

Hmmm...maybe he was the guy inside the big rubber 'monster' suit, that must have been a big guy in there...I have the DVD, I'll check the credits...

 

Although, if that was him, I wouldnt call that a good, mainstream appearance...nobody would have even known it was him, lol.

 

Its like having the Rock in a movie, and making him a tree. :)

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ok' date=' so what talk shows were they and when? I mean, if they were such big time, famous appearances, why doesnt anybody remember them? [/quote']

 

I dont even remember all the talk shows Rock has been on! :P Like I say, it talks about them on his Biography Channel...ummm....biography.

 

I dont think Andre took wrestling mainstream' date=' though, thats my point. Wrestling wasnt mainstream, before Hogan. Andy Kauffman and Jerry Lawler gave wrestling a more mainstream boost than Andre the Giant ever did, IMO.[/quote']

 

 

But thats the point, he did! Its just becouse he was eclipsed by Hogan that people forget! Andre was on TV and making people aware of wrestling before Hogan was. Admitadly its thanks to his size more than anything else. Peopel wanted to see the big man, so he went on TV.

Then when it was Hogan in the spotlight TV producers figured 'What the hell, we had one wrestler already so lets give this guy a chance. He seems popular'.

 

Thats my take on it! And Im enjoying having a debate where no one is insulting anyone elses opinions! Thanks Belty. :)

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Hmmm...maybe he was the guy inside the big rubber 'monster' suit, that must have been a big guy in there...I have the DVD, I'll check the credits...

 

Although, if that was him, I wouldnt call that a good, mainstream appearance...nobody would have even known it was him, lol.

 

Its like having the Rock in a movie, and making him a tree. :)

 

Meh, it was just an example! :P As I knew if I was going against Hogan I had to do SOME research for you!

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I dont even remember all the talk shows Rock has been on! :P Like I say, it talks about them on his Biography Channel...ummm....biography.

 

But thats the point, he did! Its just becouse he was eclipsed by Hogan that people forget! Andre was on TV and making people aware of wrestling before Hogan was. Admitadly its thanks to his size more than anything else. Peopel wanted to see the big man, so he went on TV.

Then when it was Hogan in the spotlight TV producers figured 'What the hell, we had one wrestler already so lets give this guy a chance. He seems popular'.

 

Well, Rock was on all the main talk shows, like Leno, Letterman etc and they were all to do with his movies, I dont think he was ever on them as a wrestler. Andre was probably on there due to his size only, and not because he was a wrestler, plus I think he would probably have been on the small, no-name shows.

 

Hogan, on the other hand, was on Johnny Carson in 1984 which, at that time, was HUGE! And he was on there as a wrestler. I bet Carson had never had a wrestler on there before.

 

Maybe Andre appeared on talk shows before the Hulkster, but I wouldnt so much say he paved the way for wrestlers, because I doubt he was on there as a wrestler, as much as he was on there as a really large, strange looking man. Kinda like a freak show side attraction.

 

Hell, Hogan was even on Des O' Connor in 1991, and the band played Real American as he walked out, thats big time! LOL ;)

 

Thats my take on it! And Im enjoying having a debate where no one is insulting anyone elses opinions! Thanks Belty. :)

 

Agreed, there is no need for anybody to stoop to name-calling. This is how it always should be.

 

On a side-note, I just checked the credits for Conan the Destroyer, and Andre wasnt listed, so he must have either been an extra, or maybe he was in Conan the Barbarian...although, I dont remember him in that either.

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Just to clear up the Wrestlemania 3 thing - according to Bobby Heenan, it was Andre's idea to lose to Hogan at the event. Hogan was very untrusting of Andre because he had a very strong knack for doing what he wanted when he wanted to do it. In the AWA battle royals, he would often eliminate himself if he was p***ed off, and if he wanted to, he would simply land on you when you tried to bodyslam him, and there was no way in hell you were gonna get him off you. As Bobby told Verne Gagne: "When Andre goes home, he gooes home." So you can see why Hogan would have been a little untrusting. But Andre did as promised, everything went smoothly, and Hogan was propelled to bigger superstardom.

 

I don't think Andre was the mainstream attraction before Hogan (I'd credit Gorgeous George as being the first mainstream attraction - Andre was just a huge draw within the business, not outside of it). But Andre did do a hell of a lot to boost Hogan's rep as a superhero figure.

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Well, Rock was on all the main talk shows, like Leno, Letterman etc and they were all to do with his movies, I dont think he was ever on them as a wrestler. Andre was probably on there due to his size only, and not because he was a wrestler, plus I think he would probably have been on the small, no-name shows.

Andre once held the Live With Regis & Cathy Lee show hostage by telling Regis not to cut to a commercial (and would you argue with a guy as big as Andre?), if that counts.

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a side-note' date=' I just checked the credits for Conan the Destroyer, and Andre wasnt listed, so he must have either been an extra, or maybe he was in Conan the Barbarian...although, I dont remember him in that either.[/quote']

Andre was in Conan The Destroyer uncredited as "Dagoth" (as per the movie holy grail that is IMDB.com)

 

Check out the link for Andre info:

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000764/

 

Or check this link for Hogan info:

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001356/

 

(As you can see Hogan has done WAY more TV and Movies)

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