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wrestling v sports entertaiment.


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sports entertainment or wrestling???  

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  1. 1. sports entertainment or wrestling???

    • Wrestling
      12
    • Sports entertainment
      10


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After reading another thread i'd thought i'd post a poll.

 

So would you rather watch 2 hours of chris benoits doing match after match after match, or would you prefer to watch something a little more different types and styles with storylines.

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Guest Jack_Halewood
I know exactly how this will go because most fans in the UK are kids who don't evem know the difference between Wrestling and Sports Entertainment, hell, they think they are one and the same. Of course, there should be SOME people who care about tradition, about all the people who gave everything they had to make wrestling respected, until Vince McMahon spat on their faces, the grave of his father, the careers of Lou Thesz, Frank Gotch and numerous others when he created Sports Entertainment. What kind of human being would disgrace their own father's grave, a father who gave Vince one of the bets possible upbringings with a very rich livelihood?
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This is diffcult for me, as I really feel I want a combination of both.

 

When the sports entertainment stuff is done well I actually like it, unfortunately I don't feel anyone is doing it all that well at the moment, whether it be WWF/XPW or any other US promotion I've seen.

 

Hmmm, how should I vote.

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This really pisses me off when people refer to WRESTLING as the bit when two guys get in the ring which starts and ends when the bell rings. Before sports entertainment was invente wrestling still had storylines, feuds, angles, promos etc. The term sports entertainment was invented by Vince McMahon as an excuse to have far more soap opera and a lot less wrestling matches. If anyone asks Vince or other wwf staff "why is there so many storylines and so few matches?" he can reply "because it's not wrestling its sports entertainment." Vince himself even said "sometimes we (him and storyline writers) wish we could remove the wrestling part from the name" explaining another way to decrease the amount of actual matches. I refuse to recognise all this sports entertainment bs because of the way it results in the wrestlers (who risk their lives and train so hard) being put in a 2 minute match (which gets no crowd reaction) to be over shadowed by a 15 minute speech by Triple H saying how great he is.

 

Storylines were around before sports entertainment just they were more proportional to the wrestling matches.

gosh i'm gonna get b0ll0cked

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God dammnit Jack do you think you could go one post without insulting people????You like wrestling well good for you now just stop insulting all those people who prefer sports entertainment its there choice as i have said before the world would be very boring if we all watched the same thing and had the same opinion so just lighten up go watch your "wrestling" and leave all those people who prefer "sports entertainment " be
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So would you rather watch 2 hours of chris benoits doing match after match after match, or would you prefer to watch something a little more different types and styles with storylines.

 

You seem to be trying to say that a wrestling show would have a few 20 minute matches and thats all, no storylines, no promos, nothing, and that is completely wrong.

 

A wrestling show has different types and styles, like hardcore, cruiserweight, main event style, it has storylines look at all the great feuds like Owen/Bret Savage/Steamboat, Steamboat/Flair, Bret/Austin, Funk/Cactus the list goes on, they didn't have pointless backstage skits or trucks crushing stuff, a wrestling show has promos look at 80's NWA it had amazing promos from Flair, WWF in the 80s had Roberts best work, ECW in 95 had countless Foley promos that were truly fantastic to watch, those promos weren't 25 minutes long and didn't consist of cheap pops and cathprahes and they got to the point they were trying to get over. Alot of people will say "well Rocks and HHH's promos get great heat" and that is true they do get great heat but do they need to be so long, a few mintutes before or after a match would get the same heat.

 

If you look at the ratings breakdowns of most WWF shows the sports entertainment stuff doesn't do as well compared to wrestling stuff, an clear example of this was Hogan/Rock from Raw last month, the promo that build up the feud drew the biggest rating that WWF had had it months and rightly so as it built up the Mania main event really well but as soon as the Hogan ramming Rocks ambulance with the truck started a huge number of fans changed the channel.

 

Sports Entertainement was not created by Vince McMahon in the 80's so he could brand his new style of wrestling, it was created so he could get out of controls that required representatives most noteable a ring side doctor to be present at Pro Wrestling shows (he had to pay for them to be there and hated it).

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I didnt get into Wrestling by watching Japanese Wrestling, or the Ultimate Fighting championship or whatever, I got into it when I was watching the WWF, and guys like Hogan entertained the fans not just through wrestling. It was the emotion coupled with the athleticism (ok back then athleticism was poorer yeh yeh).

 

Sure I love seeing Benoit V Angle etc, but why cant there be a storyline involved? I voted Sports Entertainment cause personally I like a nice mixture. Just my opinion as a WWF fan.

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Originally posted by Jack_Halewood

I know exactly how this will go because most fans in the UK are kids who don't evem know the difference between Wrestling and Sports Entertainment, hell, they think they are one and the same. Of course, there should be SOME people who care about tradition, about all the people who gave everything they had to make wrestling respected, until Vince McMahon spat on their faces, the grave of his father, the careers of Lou Thesz, Frank Gotch and numerous others when he created Sports Entertainment. What kind of human being would disgrace their own father's grave, a father who gave Vince one of the bets possible upbringings with a very rich livelihood?

 

Just BLOODY vote - leave the lecture!!!

 

I won't vote - I can differentiate between the two and watch both styles, and further more, enjoy both.

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Guest The Dead One
Every where I look there is a little Rob trying to cause problem's. I'll tell you what is not wrestling.... Jumping through a table in your parent's backyard.

I've never jumped through a table in my parents backyard. So what are you talking about?

 

 

Rob McKay

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Guest Jack_Halewood
Why does there have to be a storyline? Why can't it just be two wrestlers getting in the ring to see who the better person is to see who can advance further up the rankings and improve their status?
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Guest Perfection

World WRESTLING Federation.

 

I enjoy Wrestling more than i do Sports Entertainment, though i do SOMETIMES enjoy Sports Entertainment, sometimes more so than the Wrestling but the Wrestling in the WWF's product has taken an incredibly huge backseat which is very annoying for me.

 

I think it really all comes down to A 20 minute Rock promo talking about his strudle and people smelling what hes cooking OR Benoit VS Angle in a 20 minute Technical classic. I think the majority of fans (probably not here but overall) would vote for The Rock promo which is a huge slap in the face to the Wrestlers who have spent the better part of their lives training to WRESTLE and didn't think about talking crap on a microphone.

 

Don't take what i've said as to meaning i am just another 'smart' because im not, i enjoy the promos but WRESTLING is what i watch the shows for.

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Guest Dean Douglas

No point in voting, Mr Halewood's beloved "Wrestling" and "Sports Entertainment" are the same thing, the only differnce is that the US feds focus more on the Entertainment side and Japan and Mexico focus more on the Sports side. And before anyone wants to jump the gun...

 

Q: Is "Wrestling" a 100% legitimate sport?

 

Q: Does "Wrestling" use a sport as a basis for pre determined, worked exhibtions for the entertainment of an audience?

 

Q: What is the term for the genre create by amalgamating sport and entertainment in this way?

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Guest Jack_Halewood
Dean, Vince McMahon created Sports Entertainment, but he never created professional wrestling, so how is professional wrestling and sports entertainment one and the same?
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Well.... Because they are.

 

Both puro and the US product use the same forumula. Puro just take's more from the in ring work, and well rounded matches side of professional wrestling.

 

Where as the WWF take's more from the story behind the match, and thrilling the crowd with a cool looking spot's side of professional wrestling.

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Guest Jack_Halewood
SkullMonkey, OK, look at it like this. Let's say I create a style of films and call it 'ABC'. OK, does that mean that films are ALL 'ABC'??? Course not. Then how come when Vince McMahon Jr created a style of wrestling and called it 'Sports Entertainment' (the style he created in the 1980s when he moved away from a wrestling product) you think 'Sports Entertainment' is all wrestling is?
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By that last post I can safely assume that you have never seen the old NWA, or AWA product that was in place before Vince Jr. took over the WWF.

 

Sport's entertainment has been around for a great deal longer then you care to admit.... The simple fact is that "all" Professional wrestling in some way utilized the "sport's entertainment" format. Just not to the extent of the current WWF.

 

For you to call any professional federation "real wrestling" over another is just absurd, and to call anyone who enjoy's it "stupid", or just a "dumb mark" is more so....

 

When in fact you are just as much a mark of your chosen "sport's entertainment".

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Guest Jack_Halewood
I'm not saying promos and angles weren't around before SE, what I am saying is that the product of 'Sports Entertainment/Entertainment Wrestling' was created by Vince McMahon. Where the focus is on all the angles and promos and there's no focus whatsoever on the in-ring product. How many times has Vince said he'd want to get rid of the matches altogether? Exactly. 'Sports Entertainment' is a Soap-Opera and goes against the entire purpose of working matches when matches were originally worked in the early 20th century. The aim then was to make the bigger matches as good as possible and to show the progression of wrestlers trough the matches (progressional psychology) without having to risk that they might lose. It was never meant to be used in the way that Vince McMahon did when he moved away from that completely. And I have seen a hell of a lot of the old NWA, AWA, Mid-South, World Class, probably about 100 tapes of the old territories in total.
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Guest Dean Douglas
Dont you get it?, what you call "wrestling" is sports entertainment and what you call "sports entertainment" is just differnet branch of what you call "wrestling". I can use flash cards next time if it helps...oh, and be a good boy and answer those questions for me, you seem to have missed them. :)
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Guest Jack_Halewood
Not quite, what I call 'wrestling' is the style of product used by NJPW (strong style) AJPW and others in Japan. When, you know, the only interviews are 'post-match thoughs' (like on 'The Premiership' or after any footy matches) and the main focus is, good god, wrestling. In fact, I'd guarantee fans in Japan (and the wrestlers) would probably take offence to you calling what they do 'show puroresu' (what they call Sports Entertainment. Translates, obviously, as 'Show Wrestling'). Realistically, Dean, considering that actual wrestlers think the same way, I'm pretty sure that mod or not, you're the one in the wrong.
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Show me a promotion where their matches aren't worked and then I'll agree that it's wrestling, not sports entertainment.

 

As it happens I personally find the Greco-Roman style olympic amateur wrestling really really boring.

 

I guess if that was all we needed to keep us entertained then it wouldn't be an olympic sport as all the guys who participate would be professionals not amateurs, and they'd be earning megabucks coz we'd all be paying so much to watch it

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