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Message to Jack Halewood

Guest NJC

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Dear Mr. Halewood,


I have been a regular user of these forums for over a year if my memory serves me correctly. During that time we at these forums have talked about virtually every wrestling subject possible, from the greatest match of all time to the worst entrance music.


It is a place for fans of wrestling, of any kind, to talk (type, but you get the expression) about something they enjoy watching. Nobody says that Japanese and Mexican fans are not welcome, of course, they are very much welcome. However, for the Mexican fans, there is a specific forum especially for them to talk about Mexican wrestling's latest events without alienating the majority of fans in the UK forum. I myself have never posted in that forum, because I have never seen any real Mexican wrestling, so do not want to talk about it- fair enough.


I do, however, want to talk about American wrestling, specifically the WWF, because I have been watching it ever since an Uncle bought Survivor Series 1990 on Video for me. After watching that until the tape had faded the picture as a child, I eventually expanded my collection and bought other WWF videos, as they were my only means to watching wrestling as I didn't have Sky. I did buy the magazines to keep up with the latest news, and when I joined secondary school in 1997, I found a friend with a mutual interest in wrestling who had Sky, so he kindly recorded all the PPV's for me. Finally, a week before Wrestlemania 2000, my household was blessed with digital TV, so I could watch Raw and Smackdown every week.


More than two years on, I still try and watch Raw and Smackdown every week, because I love watching it. I am entertained virtually every time.




Well, for several reasons...


There is some humour in the WWF that I, funnily enough, find humourous. From William Regal's "pompous-ass attitude" (thanks JR!) to Rock's catchphrases and actions, I laugh- and sometimes I laugh hard. Hell, on last week's Raw I cracked up when the Undertaker, having told the fans to say "What?" if they would like to sleep with their own sister, they did indeed say the word, he just rubbed his chin in disbelief. It was a very funny moment in my view, so I laughed.


As I fan for 11 years, I have seen some classic matches. I couldn't give a fried tortoise egg if they are not Kawada classics..I don't even know who Kawada is. However, they entertain me, they shock me, they amaze me, and they occasionally make me feel good about myself- glad to be a fan.


The recent Rock-Hogan match at WrestleMania X8 was by no means a technical classic, but who really cares? It entertained me like nothing I can remember, I was totally and utterly enthralled watching two of wrestling's icons wrestle in a match that had the best crowd atmosphere I have ever witnessed. I had chills running down my spine, honestly. I was in my front room with all the lights off, just the TV light glaring in the room, and I just smiled when the match finished. I smiled because I loved every single minute of the match. Hulk Hogan and The Rock made me forget about everything else in the world for about half an hour, the fact that I had homework to hand in the next day, the fact that I would only have a few hours sleep that night, the fact that I needed new trainers..it all went away as I was entertained in a way that no other thing in the world can do.


I am damn proud to be a fan of the WWF Jack Halewood. I get sniggered at every time I mention to someone outside of these forums that I am a wrestling fan. I come to TWO because I know no-one is going to ridicule me for liking wrestling, because they do too. If you don't, then please, on behalf of the users of TWO, please do not post here anymore. I come here to talk about what I love, I shouldn't have to feel like an idiot when you go on about how stupid the US and UK wrestling fans are, or how you ridicule someone for saying Triple H is a good wrestler, because the Japanese wrestlers are clearly more talented. You make me feel bad about liking the WWF Jack Halewood, so please don't. Nobody else does.

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I'm sorry, but most of the WWF in-ring action is absolutely piss awful compared to pre-WM 9. Last time I checked, this is the UK Forum for fans to talk to wrestling "available" to them and not a WWF Forum. The vast majority of WWF angles are weak and VERY sloppy, the undercard gets moderate coverage and the mid to low-card gets shoved together at the last moment. You'd think with more TV time, they'd use that to make angles last longer and have more twists or ups and downs.


I'm a firm believer that something has been lost forever. It used to be that if Mr Perfect vs Ric Rude was on a WWF TV show you would want to watch it, due to the fact that you mainly got matches versus jobbers interspersed with interviews and segments. 5 PPV's was an absolutely perfect amount, gave a chance to stretch storylines and build the entire card...also, the commentators called the action in the ring and not the action two hours further up the card.


Everyone was a star...Hogan, Demolition, Savage, Taker, Perfect, The Warrior, LOD, Hart Foundation, Valentine, Honky Tonk, Rude, Dibiase, The Rougeaus, Roberts, Roddy Piper, Snuka, Bundy, Martel, Steamboat etc etc etc. But now, well now it's not about the best wrestlers or whether an angle makes sense...it's not about what the wrestlers do in the ring. A promo, once an addition...a sideshow...is now almost the entire heat drawing mechanism. "You suck" "You're an asshole" "Kiss my ass" "Shove it straight up your candy ass" ERM??? You no longer have segments, like with Jake Roberts or Roddy Piper, because every promo becomes a segment. Why does The Rock need 12 minutes to challenge The Undertaker...why does Triple H need 10 minutes to tell us he's that damned good and he's the game...why does Stephanie get any bloody airtime whatsoever...why does Kurt Angle need 10 minutes to tell us all he's not an asshole, that he's won a medal and that he did it with a broken freaking neck?


A Raven promo...he gets 2 minutes, more thought goes into it than 20 Rock promos and yet the fans just don't get it. Regal vs Angle...it goes to the mat and people boo. Why do they boo...well, it's not because it's rubbish and it's not because it's not wrestling...WWF fans pop for a move which sees a wrestler lay on his back and wait for Scotty Taylor to bop round and round and round before executing the Worm...they pop for a flaming dropped elbow by The Rock. What does The Rock do that's so special about it..."oh look, he's made some lame playground crack and then pinned that guy with an elbow!" He's pinned nothing, he makes the opponent nothing and if you think that, in 1991, a sleeper was a shit finisher, take a look at the People's Elbow.


Mate...realise what it is you like, treasure that and be able to talk about it, but at the same time realise that someone else is going to have a different opinion and it may *gasp* go against yours.


It's gotten to the point where William Regal hits a reverse northern lights suplex and the crowd don't care less...that's just wrong. Years of training, sod that just remember the insults from school and learn how to throw a fake punch and a few sloppy other moves.

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Wow, two very convincing arguement there from both NJC and Mirren, I tip my hat to both candidates.


Everyone knows I like Puro right? You should do, just look at my name, I also happen to have a fondness for Lucha. But whereas this may not be a WWF forum per see, there is a specific forum just for Lucha and Puro and they should really be kept sperate if only to avoid pointless petty squabbles like this one about which type of wrestling is the best.


If Jack likes Puro then fine, if NJC likes the WWF, then whatever, we all have different tastes and I know it's fast becoming a cliche but it would be boring if we all liked the same things.


The day you start trying to brainwash someone into liking the exact same things that you do is the day that they are going to revolt because we all have a mind of our own and NO ONE has the right to tell you what, or who you should like.


That is all. *Takes a bow*

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Sure it would be fine and dandy to flash back to 1985, and relive the glory day's of wrestling as most of us remeber them. But sadly, that is not going to happen anytime soon.


Do I consider myself a fan of professional wrestling today? Yes....


Do I sit, and watch every week, wishing for the good old days? Sometime's...


But I do not think that is what this topic is really about. To me it's about more, it's about not having someone degrade me into feeling stupid, because I happen to like the occasional storyline that the WWF come's up with. Or the fact that I was really into spotfest that RVD had last night.


Sure the technical aspect of the WWF is not what it once was. Who care's? If that is what you are looking for there are several other option's available for you to watch.

Edited by Skullmonkey
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I think youre all missing the point of the original post it was never a "WWF is great" post it was simply a request for Jack to respect oter peoples interests and to stop telling everyone that the WWF sucks.If someone likes to watch the WWF for entertainment then let them does it really really REALLY matter if hes a wrestling fan or a sports entertainment fan?? the point is he watches it because he likes it and does not appreciate people trying to criticise him for watching something he likes.
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Guest Jack_Halewood
Come on, the least WWF fans can do is admit that the product they watch (Sports Entertainment) is not wrestling. It's SPITS on tradition and the original idea for 'working' matches (to present the best matches possible whilst still at least attempting to portray what goes on in the ring as a sport). When's the last time they bring up history in the WWF, play off previous finishes to famous matches? And when I say WWF fans are stupid, it's within this context of what they say. They think that despite the WWF not being wrestling in ANY sense, they OFFEND me by daring to call themselves such. If they were WRESTLING fans, they'd WANT the WWF to bring up this history, the previous finishes of famous matches, because, well, that's where the artform is. Doesn't it leave you feeling a little empty if you know there was the opportunity to replay a previous finish but, say, with the then pinned wrestler kicking out to show that this could be his night? Anyone can work the style the WWF do, of short, spot-fest matches, hell, US Indy workers with two years experience outdo them in that area. And, hell, had Vince not done all the bullshit he has since the 1980s then wrestling would NOT be ridiculed.
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I'm really not trying to provoke an argument, but you just don't help the situation.


Thing is if it wasn't always so agressive I'd actually agree with a lot of what you say. I'm not a great fan of the current product that WWF offers, and for the most part I spend my time watching Japanese stuff.


But I don't get offended when people do like WWF, and I don't call them stupid because of it

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Tsu, thank you for at least putting your point across respectfully, but you were kinda missing the point.


All I was attempting to get across was the fact that I ENJOY watching the WWF, even if no-one else does. I ENJOY the angles, the promos, the whole show. I'm not saying everyone has to like it, all I was asking was that a certain user would stop making me feel bad about enjoying wrestling.




I thoroughly enjoy watching the WWF, I don't care if the standard of wrestling is poor or whatever, all I know is that for four hours a week, I am immensely entertained, and at the end of the show I am usually pleased- pleased because I just had the pleasure to watch something I love.


Please, please stop bringing up how bad the WWF is everytime someone says they like it. Go and watch Citizen Kane.

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Jack, can't you just for once say "fair enough, I'll respect your opinion" and leave it be. Not everyone (if anyone) cares about your opinion, certainly not enough for you to ram it down our throats at every chance you get.


Let people watch what they want to watch, you watch what you want to watch, and let's not call people stupid for watching their chosen style. Is that too much to ask for?

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