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Biggest Wastes Of Talent


Sabba Simba
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Th epoint of this is to point out who the WWF didn't use to their full potential.

 

Dean Malenko

 

If the WWF were so intent on pushing Chris Benwaaaa then why not Dean? He is an excellent technical wrestler, but only won the Light-heavyweight title during his entire stay. The only semi-main storyline he got involved in was with The Hardys and Lita, but that ended whwn he was pinned by Miss Moonsault on Raw. After that Malenko was quietly pushed down the card, resulting in his retirement, which wasn't even acknowledged on WWF programming.

 

Tommy Dreamer

 

Had an excellent reputation in ECW, yet I can't ever remember him having one match of significance on Raw or Smackdown. Could surely add some spice to the Hardcore division, hopefully he'll get his chance.

 

Jerry Lynn

 

Another one who had some superb matches in ECW but did diddly squat in Vinceland. The only title win he ever had was accomplished on Heat of all shows. Then he moaned at WWF New York once. Wow! What a career. I remember him having a stellar confrontation with the chosen one Rob Van Dam on, you've guessed it, Heat, but nothing came of it. Hell, he didn't even come to the ring when ECW reformed on Raw in July. Maybe he said something to the wrong person, who knows?

 

There are more I know, but those were three of the worst cases I could think of. Please feel free to add more.

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Add to that Billy Kidman, Booker T (yes I know he's high up there, but I still think they could do more with him), Sean O'Haire, Kane (same as Booker really, and he's a better big man than Taker and Big Show), Raven, Hugh Morrus, Chavo Guerrero Jr, Mike Awesome, DDP etc etc etc etc. The roster size has meant that they've not had room for so many promising guys they've signed though.

 

Must be frustrating for guys like Hugh Morrus and Sean O'Haire who had really started to get over in a big way with WCW crowds only to have all that hard work wasted when they came to the WWF.

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D-Lo!

 

What can't he do? He's over (He can work as either a face or heel, the reaction D-Lo gets is always loud), he can work the mic and most importantly (to me), he's a great wrestler!

 

Who else is capable of powerbombing Mark Henry, then following it up with a moonsault?

 

He's not just a spot machine, his matches contain a little bit of everything, hence they're always different. If he's fighting a man lighter than him, D-Lo can play the powerhouse role, and if he's facing someone who is psychically bigger, D-Lo can play the speedy, high flying risk taker.

 

His Frog Splash is just as fluid as Eddie's, and dare I say better than RVD's (less height, but comes down faster).

 

Too many times D-Lo has been put in a meaningless tag team, when he could have been working well in the higher mid card.

 

His IC title reign should have been the start of his push to the big time, but since then he's been put with Mosh, Tiger Ali Singh and kept off TV. If that happened to RVD after he loses the IC title, the fans would be furious. It's almost as if the WWF don't want him to do well.

 

By turning him face and putting him in the IC title picture (maybe in a month or two, after Eddie and RVD finish with each other, presuming Eddie comes away with the gold; If not, D-Lo can work as a heel against RVD.) and giving him a valet in the shape of Jackie, the WWF could save two careers which are going nowhere, and if he doesn't produce the results, fine by me. But I ask, Vince, don't punish him before he's given a fair shot.

 

Oh, and push Mike Awesome too while you're at it. :)

Edited by Russ
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Guest Jack_Halewood

It wasn't so much a waste of talent but I hated how ECW used Masato Tanaka. They ruined his progress as a worker by having him do all the poor selling.

 

But let's be honest, sadly, because of how stupid the fans are in the US/UK, the best wrestlers are often underused and worsened. Look at how Benoit receded as a worker in WCW and WWF (shows how great he was before that), Eddy Guerrero, Dean Malenko etc.

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i wouldnt say benoit receeded as a worker. Look at it like a session musician or sumthing. Say like the greatest guitarist ever cud go play with someone like nelly furtado yet do barely anything, but get paid shed loads.

 

Its like that with ppl like benoit. Yes his contribution is damn good, but if u watch new japan or sumthing, u know the guy, like many others can do more. Its just he changes his style, act, limits himself because of the audience he is in front of.

 

For instance if kirk hammett of metallica played live with steps, u wudnt see him doing a billion notes per second solo, cause it wudnt fit, try and look at it that way.

 

Benoit hasnt lost anything, merely just adapted to survive. And to show that he can still have great matches despite altering, shows how good a worker benoit really is, in my opinion.

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Guest Jack_Halewood
Well 1995 Benoit was having good matches with some (then) hopeless opponents. When given similarly hopeless opponents later in the 90s and into the new millenium, he never got anywhere near the same results. Plus, consider that when Benoit would go back to Japan, his matches were nowhere near as good as in the years before.
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Guest Perfection
Originally posted by The Crippler

I think to even slightly suggest Benoit can't put on good matches with people in the WWF is absurd.

 

Exactly, in his early days in the WWF he had a great series of matches with Jericho and had some stella matches with the likes of Austin and Angle since.

 

Although he did have some of this best matches in Japan and Mexico.

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Guest Jack_Halewood
I'm not saying Benoit can't have good matches in the WWF, what I'm saying is that had it been the Benoit we saw in the early 1990s working them matches they would have been better. For one, I think there would have been Austin working the ribs when they were taped!!! God, that shocked me. No, but Benoit was phenomenal, a Top 5 worker in the world (which means, yes, he was better than Bret and Shawn Michaels, who were never, IMO, *that* good) in the early 90s, definitely in 94 and 95.
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Originally posted by Jack_Halewood

But let's be honest, sadly, because of how stupid the fans are in the US/UK

 

Let's be honest - I find this type of "fans are stupid" attitude increasingly offensive every time you post it. Fans have a right to like who they want, watch what they want and enjoy what they want - intelligence doesn't come into the question.

 

No one is debating your right to an opinion - just ease off the assumptions and name calling - for example, I find you extremely arrogant and pigheaded, possibly incapable of rational thought, but you don't find me blabbing it about.

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Hehe subtle as ever Tony but i have to agree, everyone has the right to like whoever they want and to call people stupid just because they dont share your opinion is frankly in itself very stupid and lets face it it would be a very boring world if everybody liked the same things and shared the same opinions.
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Guest Jack_Halewood
When I call fans stupid it's because of how little they actually know. Like, for example, thinking spots make a great match and not understand the mostbasic and psychological aspects in a match. Look at ut like this, a film is looked at by how the characters are used, the plot progresses, the emotion in the actors, the build (so that the ending is the best part of the film and keeps you in constanht suspense). All of thse are basically the equivalent of 'psychology' and 'buil' in wrestling. Whereas, a spot fest would be just one big stunt after the other with no plot at all, no dialogue. Hell, who'd say The Fast and the Furious or The Matrix is better than Citizen kane?
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Actually, i think that The Matrix was a great film, better than Citizen Kane :) Also i still dont think its fair to call fans of WWF stupid. How do you know how much they know about wrestling, just because they dont know about it all behind the scenes doesnt make them stupid, you constantly seem to use mark as an insult in the chat room, i dont think its fair to start insulting people because they have different opinions. Come on Jack you're saying that the very first time you watcherd wrestling you were thinking about how great/bad the Psych/Build was. I think you need to start taking in others opinions.
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Benoit has "receeded" as a worker less than most other stars. Show me a wrestler who hasn't become a worse worker as his career has progressed.

 

Your opinion and you're entitled to it, but Bret and Shawn are two of the greatest of all time. Both outstanding talents with very different strengths. I actually believe that if you took all the good points of these two you could create an almost perfect wrestler.

 

Now I'm hating myself for doing this, particularly as I've posted recently saying we shouldn't all shoot people down and spend so much time getting at each other but I just can't help it.

 

Halewood, I'm a UK fan, and far from stupid. I'm also peed off you keep saying UK/US fans are stupid. They have differing tastes to you, doesn't mean they're stupid. For instance, the Rock is talented, whatever way you look at it. Maybe not your cup of tea, but as I said recently, being able to bring 30000 people to their feet just by raising an eyebrow is talent.

 

Your posts are one dimensional at best. Everything is turned into "Japan Japan Japan, everything there is better". Japan offers a very different style of wrestling, one which you prefer and that's fair enough. Most of the time I do too. What annoys me is your decision that anyone who doesn't agree is stupid.

 

We're talking about wasted talent in the WWF, and all of a sudden yet again you turn it into your butthomoing rhapsodomy for Japanese wrestling. Benoit's not a worse worker since he's worked for the big US promotions, just a different one. I've seen loads of his Japanese stuff and I genuinely don't think he did much there that was any better than what he's done since. As for him not being able to get decent matches out of the worst wrestlers anymore. He had an awesome match with Sid when he won his first world title amongst others.

 

I think what I'm trying to say is don't label people stupid because they don't like the same things you do.

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If somebody finds spot fests entertaining then in their eyes that does make a great match. That's what entertains them most and that's fine. What makes a great match is individual, not for you to decide.

 

Incidentally I do agree with you about the Matrix though. I think that Keanu is wooden as ever, their isn't really a plot, the basic concepts have been done before and much better, it tries to blind you with flash effects, no characterization, Fishburne wasted (no good lines, not even as good as "if you got em smoke em"). I don't think it's a bad film, just an average one.

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Originally posted by Russ

D-Lo!

 

What can't he do? He's over (He can work as either a face or heel, the reaction D-Lo gets is always loud), he can work the mic and most importantly (to me), he's a great wrestler!

 

Who else is capable of powerbombing Mark Henry, then following it up with a moonsault?

 

He's not just a spot machine, his matches contain a little bit of everything, hence they're always different. If he's fighting a man lighter than him, D-Lo can play the powerhouse role, and if he's facing someone who is psychically bigger, D-Lo can play the speedy, high flying risk taker.

 

His Frog Splash is just as fluid as Eddie's, and dare I say better than RVD's (less height, but comes down faster).

 

Too many times D-Lo has been put in a meaningless tag team, when he could have been working well in the higher mid card.

 

His IC title reign should have been the start of his push to the big time, but since then he's been put with Mosh, Tiger Ali Singh and kept off TV. If that happened to RVD after he loses the IC title, the fans would be furious. It's almost as if the WWF don't want him to do well.

 

By turning him face and putting him in the IC title picture (maybe in a month or two, after Eddie and RVD finish with each other, presuming Eddie comes away with the gold; If not, D-Lo can work as a heel against RVD.) and giving him a valet in the shape of Jackie, the WWF could save two careers which are going nowhere, and if he doesn't produce the results, fine by me. But I ask, Vince, don't punish him before he's given a fair shot.

 

Oh, and push Mike Awesome too while you're at it. :)

 

All i was gonna say. D'Lo is phenomenal, use him.

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to answer jack's point, jack maybe they dont want or need to know. What the average fan watches on raw is war or smackdown to them, is wrestling, so basically they have nothing to compare to.

 

Yes you can go on for longer than a stephanie mcmahon promo about how kawada has more psychology than siegmund freud and how his matches with misawa in 94 and 95 were simply phenomenol, and yes to u and me, they are, but to the casual fan they arent. They dont go to a wwf show to see one hour of how to sell the most painful suplex's and lariat's. They go to watch people drink beer, have riotous brawls, and see the "attutude" get kicked fully into effect.

 

Yes your points are very valid, and on merit kawada and misawa r better workers than ure jeff hardy or christian, its just we are talking about wwf fans, the majority who know wrestling only as the likes of the wwf.

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Guest Jack_Halewood
Ok, well, look at it like this. The quality in a match, ask anyone of the so-called 'experts' or other wrestlers (and, no, I consider myself neither) they will tell you that the quality in a match is how the moves are used, like in a painting how the colours are used and not what they are, like in a book how the words are used for maximum effect to make sense, like how in films the dialogue and characters are used to build the film to a crescendo, that is make the finish (what you remember) as good as it possibly can be and make that tie-up the film completely. When's the last time a painting was 'rated' by how fancy the colours are? Or a book how fancy the words are? Or a film how flashy the stunts are? Never, not by 'proper' critics anyway. And just like the aofremtnioned, wrestling was always the same. When they began working matches in the early 1900s, it was not for wrestling to be considered 'entertainment' it was for the matches to build to a heated crescendo, or something similar. Of course, nowadays it's 'Entertainment Wrestling' in the US/UK and the things that matter for you to see how 'good' a match is (psychology, build, selling) are often overlooked because 'this spot was cool' or something similar.
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Guest Jack_Halewood
On the subject of Michaels and Hart, I thought both were really good (Bret being the best) but neither are/were as good as others, even in the US at the time. Can you honestly tell me that Hart was better than Liger? Michaels better than Kawada? Course you can't. You see, Michaels' problems were that he'd overbump for moves, as well as he'd seemingly forget anything built in the previous 'body' of the match by the finish. OK, he's not the only one and Ohtani and others would do it on occassion but Michaels would be doing it, like, 90%+ of the time. Just watch his Iron Man Match with Bret, that match completely, utterly exposed Michaels, who should have been putting forth his best possible performance since it was his WWF title win. As for Bret, well, he was better, but my only gripe was that he was too predictable. Once you saw the first of the 'Five moves of Doom' you knew what was coming. Plus, he'd work the legs, and his version of the Sasorigatame (Sharpshooter) would actually work the BACK by sitting back and applying pressure on the back and not the legs (to do so he'd take the move much higher and bend the legs more, such as Akira Taue would do on occasion).
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lol jack im not arguing ure point, ure right kawada and misawa r better workers than shawn and bret, its just the average wwf fan wants to watch bret and shawn rather than kawada and misawa, because thats they way they look at and interpret wrestling. Neither of us are right or wrong, its just fans interpret and see what they want, so to say kawada is better than shawn, sure he was/is, its just wwf fans want to c sports entertainment nuff sed.

 

anyways back to the topic, raven is the biggest waste.

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Guest Dean Douglas

I think the musical analogy is called for once again...

 

Wrestling is like music, there are different styles for different people and each has it's own perceived faults and merits. For example, take these two guitarists, Yngwie Malmtsteen popularised the shredder style in vogue in the 80s and could play god knows how many notes a second and utilise many impressive techniques for a fast and technically demanding style but couldn't touch Stevie Ray Vaughan, the premier blues player of the same era, regarding ability to convey emotions through his music but on the other hand, SRV didn't play very fast at all. If Rock and Austin were wrestling on a New Japan PPV they'd probably be booed out of the building yet Kawada stepping into a WWF ring and spending 10 minutes setting the scene for the remaing 25 minutes of a Japanese style match would bore a WWF audience to tears, different tastes for different people, no one definitely better or worse.

 

As for the Benoit argument, I point you to the story of Mr Ritchie Blackmore. Blackmore was Deep Purple's lead guitarist and in the band's early prog rock days he played a very fast, complex style, after the demise of prog rock Deep Purple changed their direction to a more conventional rock style and Blackmore adapted accordingly, with that they had their biggest ever hit with Smoke on the Water, the main riff for which contains ony 4 notes. Would you say he "receeded" as a player?, I woudn't, he changed with the times and circumstances to become more successful than when he was playing prog rock, just as Benoit has in the WWF by adapting for success in the WWF climate.

 

Moving on to the thread topic, I think Chris Jericho's talents have been wasted beyone belief, sure he got the world title but look at how that was handled.

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