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Hogan or Vince McMahon - who has done more for Wrestling


Christof
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The way it all started - neither could have done it without the other. Hogan without Vince's promotional and financial backing. And Vince without Hogan's selling of the character and physical presentation.

 

But if I would have to pick, I'd say Vince - for obvious reasons.

 

P.S Wait for WWFBeltMark to get on this thread - he may have some interesting opinions! lol!

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i'd say vince too, Hogan did revolutionise wrestling in the 80's but in the ninties it needed to be done again to bring the business back from a slump and into the mainstream again, and it was austin that did it then. So i'd say Vince since his business sense for a star is what really made the business big
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No doubt they both did great things for the business, but Vince gets the nod from me.

 

A little hard to compare, a superstar and an owner... Maybe a bit harsh, but you wanted an answer so you got one. In the long-run, the owner is the one who puts a company on the map. And obviously that involves help from talent...

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Thing is, many say that Vince made Hogan, but Hogan was a huge star in the AWA before he got signed for the WWF. He was primed for big things beforehand. Maybe if he hadn't have left the ASWA, things would have been very different.

 

Plus, many said that "anyone" could have had Hogan's role. Warrior had it in 1990 and failed (poor draw, not as over as they'd have liked for a champion, eventually made him lose it). They tried to push Luger - he failed. Would a guy like Savage have had the same success if he was pushed hard in 1985? Or a Kerry Von Erich? It's debatable to say the least. Vince definately had the finger on the pulse, but then remember that Hogan was a huge star in the AWA and whilst Vince was making Attitude (an idea that Russo and Shane pushed for, being big fans of ECW) Hogan had helepd WCW reach bigger heights than the WWF, and was instrumental in the 83+ weeks at the top of the ratings.

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Oh i'm not saying that austin would be as successfulwithout Vince, but could of Vince got anybody else to fill the role that Austin had.

They gave Bradshaw the texas redneck and it did not work anywhere near as well as his John Bradshaw Layfield gimmick.

 

can you think of anyone else who could of fit the role?

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i see austin was the right guy at the right time, bit like hogan was in the 80'sbu then maybe thats really how it always is, you need a promoter to see who does really have the star power in them or at least that potential to be big... but you also need someone who has it in them to begin with to perform. though i think that vince does have a talent for taking someone who is flopping massivly and making them into someone who gets way over he did it at least three times that really stand out. Namely the ringmaster/Austin, Rocky Maivia/The Rock and Bradshaw/JBL although personally i have always had a little likeing for the APA but now JBL is super over imho
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This is tough. Who has done more for the business...hmmmm. Well, they go hand in hand, no doubt. Hogan was getting huge in the AWA because of his Rocky 3 fame and Vince knew this, so he nabbed him, and it was the best move of his promotional life. He built his company on the back of Hulk Hogan, nobody could have taken that character to the height Terry Bollea did and nobody could have promoted it as well as Vince McMahon did.

 

This is how I see it, if Hulk Hogan was wrestling and there was no Vince McMahon, he would still have been a huge star in the AWA, but if Vince McMahon was promoting without Hulk Hogan, his company wouldnt have been able to go National and then International. So, Vince McMahon needed Hulk Hogan more than Hogan needed Vince back in 1984, so Hogan did more for wrestling than anybody could at that time.

 

However, Hogans drawing ability dwindled in 1992 big time, and he was a non-entity in wrestling for 2 years (but then, so was Vince and his WWF which was sinking). Hogan once again became a huge draw from 94 - 98 while Vince was still trying to figure it out, then in 98, Vince went into supernova on the back of Austin and the Rock, while Hogan died out until 2002.

 

Overall, I'd say Hulk Hogan has done more for the business than anybody, simply because both of the huge companies were on his back and he carried them both to great heights, while Vince McMahon has the right guys at the right time to help him like Hogan, Austin, Rock etc.

 

Dont get me wrong, Vince is a savvy businessman and a great promoter, WHEN HE HAS THE RIGHT PEOPLE. But Hogan was the man just by being Hogan from 83 - 92 and 94 - 98 whereas Vince has only been doing good things for the business when he has the right guys. Hogan did it working for Vince AND without Vince, Vaince did it with Hogan but also needed other megastars.

 

The Hogan mark in me says Hogan, and I honestly believe it, but its a tough call and I would put them on level peggings at worst.

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thing is while in WCW he was a huge draw and part of the 80 plus week winning streak for them initially i'd say that the political nightmare part of his personality coupled with a contract that included a creative control was part of what contributed to the end of WCW along with alot of other things of course but hogan didn't help at all there in the end. Where as Vince for the most part can get very close to the brink but always finds a way back, of course he does it off other peoples back but thats his job as a promoter.
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Personally it's never 1 man who makes everything, and if Hogan never had Vince he'd have never have been as big, and if Vince had never had Hogan, he'd have never got WWE to what it became.

 

Sure Hogan was great, but as I've always said he needed great booking, and opponent strength, and without that, he'd have never ever as been as big. Sometimes people seem to think Hogan being Hogan is why he's great, when there is so much more. Even in WCW he was booked great, so of course he did well, considering when the booking was terrible he did terribly, anyone notice that?

 

I'm not taking anything away from Hogan, he's a legend. But he needed the decent booking, and opponents just like every other great did. Hogan was great being himself, along with great booking and foes.

 

Also the right guys at the right time, doesn't really work in wrestling, cause you gotta back it up, and prove it, or else you'll fall flat on your face. Hogan, Rock and Austin all could back it up, but Vince also booked them great, and built them up great, so lets not take away from that.

 

Hogan was big with Vince and without him, and Vince was big with him and without him (such as Austin and Rock), so for me, they are definitly equal

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I think the only deciding factor can be the other thing that made Hogan a big name... The people that Vince hired as his supporting cast.

 

Would Hogan's matches over the title been as successful without the likes of Andre, Savage, DiBaise, Orndorff etc?

 

No, and it was simply because Vince knew who worked well and who could play off Hogan and who Hogan could use to build a decent program....

 

What would have happened if Vince had constantly just put him in there with the likes if Earthquake, King Kong Bundy or Duggen who wheren't as talented as the rest of Hogan's opponents? What if Vince hadn't have wrote or booked everything in the right way to draw heat?

 

Even in WCW he had the people there to play off like Flair, Sting and later the Giant, Goldberg and the Wolfpac... But Hogan's power as a draw died when Goldberg beat him for the WCW title on Nitro and any subsequent reigns and main events he was placed in where a mistake by WCW....

 

Yeah Vince went through a slump, as did wrestling as a whole during 1992-96 but that was simply because of trends. Plus the fact that wrestling fans of the 1984-1989 period had now grown up and society had moved on....

 

It needed something different and until 1996 and the nWo in WCW neither company in the US had it... ECW did but on a smaller level and thats why people remember the 1995 to 1997 part of their history the most...

 

These are reasons why Vince can't be blamed for the old WWF's slump in 1992 as it was legal and society reasons that caused the downturn in business in all wrestling in North American (Japan and Europe where uneffected, hence Summerslam 1992 being in London, another good move by VKM...)

 

But Hogan on the other hand would never have reached the heights of previous years again without the nWo, he tagged along on Nash's and Hall's coat tails and got to the top ahead of them!

 

Vince as a business man just simply re-built as business men have to do and gave us Attitude, he helped Rocky and Austin find stardom and he proved that wrestling could move with the times... At the exact same time Hogan was still beating people with the leg drop for the World title on tv just like in 1984....

 

Seeing as this business is about moving with the times to keep successful, when you look at it like that Vince just shades it...

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i'd say vince sorta made SCSA mostly because vince originally made him 'the ringmaster' before changing his gimmick fast when he flopped.. if vince hadn't austin would be a nobody

 

Steve Austin made Stone Cold Steve Austin, Vince just allowed him to continue with his idea and pursue it. And low and behold, it worked!

 

It was Austin's idea to change his gimmick, not Vince's...

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Yeh but who pushed him, and wrote (with the writers) all the great angles?

 

Takes 2 to tango.

 

Yes, that was Vince McMahon. There's no disputing that. Vince helped Austin a great deal, and Austin just went out there and did his thing. The same can be said about Hogan, Rock, anybody.

 

What I was debating with is what Tajiri_San said. He claimed that Vince saw Austin was toppling as The Ringmaster and quickly changed his gimmick. Well he didn't, it was Stone Cold who saw that the gimmick sucked, and then purused Vince McMahon about it...

 

It's more the case of, if Austin had not have gone to Vince concerning the issue, then Stone Cold could have possibly been a nobody to this day. The whole company could be on a different path...

 

That's what I was trying to say. There's no debate over it taking 2 to tango in this business. Technically it takes more, because you can't wrestle yourself ;)

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Thats what I was saying in my last post...

 

Without the likes of Savage, Andre, DiBasie etc to wrestle Hogan would not have been as popular... for a fued to draw you have to have the right chemistry story and opponent...

 

Same for Austin, with no Bret, Owen, HBK, HHH, Rock, Foley, Kane or Taker he would have tanked...

 

More then Hogan and McMahon got the WWF international and more then Austin and McMahon made Attitude... Russo, D-X, Rock and the Montreal Screw Job did that as well....

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