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When will Taker put someone over?


FreeSpirit
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Is it me or does Taker never put anyone over and do a 'job'? The last time I can remember Taker putting anyone over without the need for cheating was against Brock Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 in the Hell in the cell-or otherwise its the same old story where its a decisive Taker victory or his opponent has to cheat to get a victory.

Some ppl may point to HHH doing the same thing on Raw but at least he's put people like Shelton Benjamin and Chris Benoit over this year and more than once as well.

How are talent like Booker (Judgment Day)and Heidenreich (Survivor Series)suppose to get pushed if Taker doesnt help push them?

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I half agree with you there (and I say this as an Taker fan).

 

The problem is his character, which is meant to be indestructable, 'The Phenom'.

 

They've done their best to bring the character down to a more human level. E.g. he just puts himself in a state where he can just ignore pain and sit up rather than he's a 'deadman'. Unfortunatley he is still 'The Phenom' and as such is expected to be nigh unbeatable. I mean just look at his entrance - its designed to be awe inspiring. If you ever watch Smackdown and the Undertaker enters the arena just sit and wait for Michael Cole to use the phrase 'Spine-Chilling!!' he does it every time.

 

His character has been built up to a level where the only way you can beat him is to either cheat or get help. i.e. - JBL

 

I don't believe that Taker refuses to job to anyone its just he can't without negating some of the power of the character.

 

How are talent like Booker (Judgment Day)and Heidenreich (Survivor Series)suppose to get pushed if Taker doesnt help push them?

 

You mentioned Booker T - the problem with that scenario was Booker's story. He had just been traded to Smackdown and wasn't happy. He disrespected the other stars and as such needed to be taught a thing or two hence a beating by the Taker. It couldn't really go any other way.

 

As for Heidenreich. I think my friend The Assignment covered that well enough. He shouldn't of even been in the ring with Taker.

 

I agree that Taker hasn't put over anyone recently but I don't think its entirely his fault. His character is meant to be unbeatable. Personally I would've liked him to remain under Heymans control. I think he would've been slightly more human and believeable. As a heel he would be put into a situation where he would be winning through cheating and as a heel could therefore job to others.

 

Just a thought.

 

:xyx

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yeah it has to be said that to a certain point his character dictates it. I mean, the no selling thing. That wasn't just a case of Taker deciding he was going to no sell stuff. It's part of his character. As a face he's supposed to be indestructible and people are supposed to need to cheat to beat him. As a heel he's supposed to be dominant and almost impossible for a face to get past.

 

Remember how he put Mankind over though and how well it worked? Mankind was pushed as the first person to ever get a clean win over Taker and it made people instantly take him seriously.

 

Because of Taker's character and the fact that he's rarely putting someone over when it does happen it has so much more impact.

 

I can think of a lot of times though when it would have been more beneficial to the company for him to get beat clean than it would have for him to get yet another victory. However, is it really Taker's duty to look out for others?

 

You get into the business to make money and if it's anything else you seek you're either misguided or an idiot. You try to protect your own career as much as possible first, and think of other people's careers second. Fans may not like that but who's gonna be laughing at the end of the day, the big guy that's made a hell of a lot of money, or the guys like us sat at home whingeing about him?

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Takers put plenty of people over in his day. Hell the guy even got Jeff Hardy over with people who werent screaming little adolescent girls or Kam. he got him over with the Spot Monkey fans who like seeing grown men risk paralysis by jumping off ladders and not actually being able to wrestle a single move, but hey they love Jeff Hardy
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It doesnt just apply to Taker. Pretty much any face never loses to heel cleanly, otherwise the heel wouldnt be a heel! How can u hate a guy that beats the good guy fair and square?

 

And as for Takers character. I think its kinda stoopid after th whole biker image. He should have stayed a biker or never have been 1 in the first place. It feels so fake after seeing him so normal.

 

Im sure if he was in the ring with another face theyd be put over though. I guess that would be something to end his run in the WWE and push a rising star 2 the next level.

 

Josch

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All good points, but i think Jayden put it best;

He's THE PHENOM THE DEADMAN, and to keep up this image he HAS to win almost all the time or it won't work. If he put a guy over every week it wouldn't be THE PHENOM anymore, it's be "that guy."

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If anybody has read The Rock's book, there is a good story in there about the first meeting he has with Taker, and Taker decides taht Rocky, who has just joined tha nation and started using the Rock Bottom, should beat him CLEAN, with that move. And Taker has put over many folk, Kane, Mankind, Rock, Austin, HHH, Shamrock, Kama fo fck sake. So to say he won't put anyone over is wrong.

 

I believe that Taker will lose at WM21 to somebody. Don't know who, but it will be a career high. Like Y2J is always gonna be the 1st Undisputed champ, the person who beats Taker at his last Mania, will always be the only man who could beat Taker at WM. Not Snuka, Jake, Gigante *groan*, Bundy, Nash, Sid, Kane(x2), Boss Man, HHH, Flair, or A-Train/Big Show. Just that guy, say Edge or someone of that ilk.

 

It would be great IMO.

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All character angles aside look at the plausability, as youve all mentioned of him winning alot of the time but also look at his opposition, i am a huge fan of smackdown currently, but WWE in 2004 is not what WWE was in 1994, you simply cannot expect to put a young guy in with a veteran, put him over and expect the fans to latch onto him for ever and ever.....its unfortunate but true, we live in a world full of internet cynics who disect wrestling rather than enjoy it, or enjoy it through disection....im not sure

 

Taker is a step or two above everyone else, IMO smackdown are playing the pushing game, Eddie's title run, JBL's title run, Carlito's US debut, Cena's.....character and the actual use of the Big Show lead me too believe that smackdown are trying to establish themselves indepedantly so to speak, rather than The HHH show, who push wrestlers, i dont deny that but seem to do so more hesitantly (at the end of the day the WWE can always take chances on SD as they have RAW to fall back on)

 

However i digress, my point is simply that Taker has been at the top of his game longer than alot of the roster has been in the game, the roster split, retirements and other various reasons mean the WWE no longer have Rocks, Austins, HHHs, Takers, Mankinds all on one roster, with Taker on his part time contract SD can try an get JBLs, Booker T's, Cenas, Big Shows, Guerreros in that category in a few years time

 

point is though, when taker does come back, for him to be gettin beat, despite putin people over would just look silly, regardless of his character hes a top wrestler that fans dont exect to lose! Itd just look......well silly!

 

i think theres a point in there somewhere

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It's like 'Chaser said. He will leave with his perfect WM record. He deserves it too.

 

I can't remember who said it but someone on this forum wrote, and I paraphrase, "When you put someone over right, you both look good." Taker can, has, and does do that.

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Changing the subject slightly - If Taker were to retire where would that leave Smackdown/WWE?

 

He remains one of the biggest draws on Smackdown and as Macho stated in his visit to a recent House Show, when Taker came out it was like a rock legend entering the arena. The crowd went wild.

 

Smackdown seems to have very few stars that can create this atmosphere. John Cena and Eddie Guerrero are the main ones that spring to mind. You could say Booker T but if rumours are true he is considering retirement himself.

 

If you look at Raw theres Orton, Jericho, Benoit, (The Rock on rare occasions), Eugene, I believe you could see Kane join that list when he returns, all names that people will cheer. It seems to me that Smackdown minus Taker could end up dead and buried (pun intended)!

 

What do you reckon. Is there life after Taker?

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Yeah my comment was completely tongue in cheek because of the subject matter of the thread.

 

Personally I think they could lose HHH and it wouldn't affect Raw ratings or buy rates. I don't think they could lose Taker from Smackdown and it have that same lack of effect. That's partly down to Raw having a wider pool of top stars, and partly down to HHH boring the pants off most people while Taker continues to appeal to people.

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Yeah my comment was completely tongue in cheek because of the subject matter of the thread.

 

Personally I think they could lose HHH and it wouldn't affect Raw ratings or buy rates. I don't think they could lose Taker from Smackdown and it have that same lack of effect. That's partly down to Raw having a wider pool of top stars, and partly down to HHH boring the pants off most people while Taker continues to appeal to people.

 

HHH losing would probably affect Raw rates. If he lost I bet ratings would go up. Who doesn't want to see him lose? A lot more people like Taker then do h^3.

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Is it me or does Taker never put anyone over and do a 'job'? The last time I can remember Taker putting anyone over without the need for cheating was against Brock Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 in the Hell in the cell-or otherwise its the same old story where its a decisive Taker victory or his opponent has to cheat to get a victory.

Some ppl may point to HHH doing the same thing on Raw but at least he's put people like Shelton Benjamin and Chris Benoit over this year and more than once as well.

How are talent like Booker (Judgment Day)and Heidenreich (Survivor Series)suppose to get pushed if Taker doesnt help push them?

 

 

dude its his character hes the deadman and he meant to be like impossible to beat and heidenreich they guy is a mentel case

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In regards to Undertaker leaving i think itd be totally double edged, short term wise SD would suffer, his talent, his appeal and his experience make him invaluable without him theyd surely suffer a loss of ratings they cant afford to lose right now

 

However in regards to the bigger picture i think it may well be a positive thing for SD

 

IMO, the reason RAW was so much more popular than SD when the brands split was due to the fact that it had so many headliners and showed them off in their main events for months, SD tried to do the same but with Lesnar and Angle and not much else

 

When Brock went bye bye to warm some bench old school style, SD realised they didnt have the level of talent as RAW, so they started to push the mid card talent that they saw capable of being big draws at the top of a card

 

What im trying to say is that as we recover from the attitude era, as fans we see it as a stretch of the imagination to believe that your Eddies, JBLs, Booker Ts, Cenas would beat Taker and it seems slightly silly that he doesnt have the title around his waist

 

Remove Taker from the picture and Smackdown has a very structured title subdivision, if you thinks about it

 

WWE Championship wise youd have

 

JBL

Eddie

Booker T

Cena

Angle

Big Show

RVD

 

which would make for several months of interesting TV

 

then the US title picture is even more interesting, you have

 

Haas

Carlito

Suzuki

Dupree

Holly

Jesus

Heindenreich

Orlando Jordan

Luther Reigns

Mark Jindrak

 

All at that kind of level, could make the division very competetive

 

actually do something with the cruiserweights and get some decent tag teams and smackdown in my opinion could be truly great

 

wow long post, apologies

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