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Underrated & Overrated?


Calgary Hitman
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Over rated - the UK industry in general. I see lots of people working hard, and not doing anything very exciting. Ok, sure there's no money there but it makes me laugh when I read places that the people working in the UK put on better matches than the WWE (i can't remember where I read that, but it was recent, and it's laughable)

 

Under Rated - Nobody I've seen really. I can't pretend to have seen anyone who is that obscure so I'm sure there's some nobody somewhere working some sports hall in Glenrothes that it better than people give him credit for but I've seen probably all of the top 40/50 or so workers in the UK on tape or online. Anyone who looks even remotely good gets praised as being something special. Storm, Fleisch, Shane, Burchill all presented as something special when in reality they are something average. they stand out from the crowd because the crowd is so weak, not because they are so good. Perhaps Williams is under rated, perhaps, but to be honest I think he gets about the right ammount of kudos for how good he is.

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I think the UK guys are every bit as talented as their much-hyped American 'cousins'. Johnny Storm, Jodie Fliesch and Doug Williams can certainly hold their own with the US workers. I don't think they are overrated in the slightest... I would much rather watch these guys than a number of 'acclaimed' US guys.

 

I don't think any of our guys are overrated at all because they just don't ever get enough credit in my opinion. Compare their work to the US indy scene and I think we have a great talent pool here. Doug Williams is a technical master in RoH and Jody Fliesch's work is legendary there. Johhny Storm is also rightly praised for his entertaining matches - there is a lad who can wrestle any style.

 

Underrated? Depends on who is rating them.... but when I see people call the likes of AJ Styles the best in the world and then say that UK workers are generally crap I don't see where they are coming from.... it's all down to exposure. Stick Drew McDonald and Robbie Brookside alongside Abyss and Chris Sabin for example. Two guys are a lot better known but in no way are they better workers.

 

The biggest problem with British Wrestling is in the production. If guys like NWA-UK and IWF can get some decent camcorders and get footage of their shows out there, more people could judge their stuff more fairly and realistically.

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Drew/Robbie and Abyss/Chris work completely different styles, so you can't really compare. If say you compared an AJ to a Jonny, no comparison. AJ kicks him out of the water. Doug is a very solid worker, but he's nothing on Daniels and Danielson as a worker, in my humble opinion.

 

I prefer people to compare to indy guys though. It's when they compare to the WWE guys that it becomes delussional. "For every Rock, you have Alex Shane" - er, no you don't. Dunno if you've noticed but The Rock is an amazing act, great talker, good wrestler, an international movie star, and extremely marketable. Alex doesn't fall into many of those catagories. "For every Rey Mysterio, there's a Jonny Storm". Actually, you're thinking more "Because of Rey Mysterio, there's a Jonny Storm". There is no comparison. Rey is a legend who helped popularise the lucha libre style of small wrestlers to an international audience, and has a wide array of innovative moves, ad can work a techinical and high flying match with people of all sizes. Get the idea yet?

 

 

Sorry, that was a rant and a half.

 

Overrated: FWA.

 

Underrated: Purely on a wrestling scale, has to be Morales (biased, but meh). The guy is a solid big man, works well as a heel, can do some impressive moves for his size, and is learning all the time. The improvement in him is phenomenal, and he has some great people around him to push him harder. Can't see anything less than big things for him.

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I think everyone who gets in that ring to entertain a WWE tainted fan is underrated.

 

No, I mean that, Every wrestler deserves credit because they go through hell to entertain the fans and what do they usually get? Some smart arsed fan who compares them to the Rock, Hogan, or someone else who has had the TV time to impress!

 

From All Star to WZW there are people who have done fantastic things in the name of wrestling only to be deadened by smarks and people who have to question Britain in comparison to a country that has a larger population.

 

We are an island of finite borders, America has massive land mass and a better delection of wrestlers.

 

So if you want my final answer:

 

Underrated: Britain

Overrated: America by the British Audience.

 

I do have to agree with Draven though, despite the fact he says I'm a shit wrestler (Thanks for that Colin), FWA says it's the best of British wrestling... Jody Fleische, Colt Cabana, etc etc... Check the country of birth.

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it makes me laugh when I read places that the people working in the UK put on better matches than the WWE (I can't remember where I read that, but it was recent, and it's laughable)

Various people have written this on various forums and I agree fully. Obviously not everyone is putting on these top notch matches, but WWE chucks out it's fair share of cack.

 

Take Rhyno vs Coach from this week's Smackdown, for example. Are you seriously suggesting that this was better than any match in the UK?

 

Take Eddie and JBL's title match. For a PPV main event it was uninspiring, completely lacking in emotion and - apart from Eddie's blade job and the following chair shot - utterly unmemorable.

If you want to see a match with some intensity and passion in it, aswell as being technically sound, then take advantage of the fact JekkeL and Samurai have (at least) two more matches booked against each other in the forthcoming months. It's been 16 months since I first saw these two against each other and I can still remember pretty much the entire match. Shame I can't say the same about Eddie vs JBL.

 

As for the WWE ladies. Can you honestly say that the hairpulling and rolling around you see on Smackdown are better "matches" than those involving UK women like Klondike Kate, Sweet Saraya, Jetta or Blaze? You know, real wrestlers?

 

If you've never seen a decent match in the UK then you've obviously not seen many of the top guys this country has to offer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would never compare myself to anybody in WWE. I feel I'm a solid worker who can compete to a good enough standard to be beleivable and entertaining.

 

In the UK we, on the most part, don't have the time or the facilities that the larger U.S. companies have. Being part of what was to become BCW, there was a core of guys trained by The Highlander in a post office and a sports centre, we had no wrestling ring to use at that time. Only when we got to the shows we had been booked on would we have the chance to use a ring. That was like that for almost 2 years, then we got a ring and thing's picked up. The BCW training site is a unit in an industrial estate, next to a railway line. It is reminiscent of Tough Enough 1 and the Traxx training centre in that respect, and it let us know that the company was on it's way. We now have a few great talents in the company. I won't include myself in this 'cos I'm humble enough to know my limits. I'm a power-brawler who can get have a decent exciting match, but nothing really special. In BCW I would say that 'Thee' Drew Galloway, Wolfgang & Darkside (T2K), Red Lightning and manager Charles Boddington are really under-rated and IMO, it's a shame that more people haven't seen these talents in action. Also Sabotage has been on a few of BCW's shows, and is really over with the crowd.

 

I would also say that BCW as a promotion is under-rated. BCW has only been promoting shows since Feb '03 and we've had on the shows, Barbarian, Marty Jannetty, Honky Tonk Man, Jake Roberts, Colt Cabana, Joe E. Legend, Steve Corino, D-Lo Brown, the main WZW roster has worked with us, as has Alex Shane, Stevie Knight, Jonny Storm, Justin Richards and Spanky would've but his girlfriend wouldn't let him. Damn that Taylor from TE1.

 

Plug for the company over, that is, IMO, who's under-rated.

 

Hangman's under-rated too, but then I would say that.

 

lol.

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Various people have written this on various forums and I agree fully. Obviously not everyone is putting on these top notch matches, but WWE chucks out it's fair share of cack.

 

Take Rhyno vs Coach from this week's Smackdown, for example. Are you seriously suggesting that this was better than any match in the UK?

 

Take Eddie and JBL's title match. For a PPV main event it was uninspiring, completely lacking in emotion and - apart from Eddie's blade job and the following chair shot - utterly unmemorable.

If you want to see a match with some intensity and passion in it, aswell as being technically sound, then take advantage of the fact JekkeL and Samurai have (at least) two more matches booked against each other in the forthcoming months. It's been 16 months since I first saw these two against each other and I can still remember pretty much the entire match. Shame I can't say the same about Eddie vs JBL.

 

As for the WWE ladies. Can you honestly say that the hairpulling and rolling around you see on Smackdown are better "matches" than those involving UK women like Klondike Kate, Sweet Saraya, Jetta or Blaze? You know, real wrestlers?

 

If you've never seen a decent match in the UK then you've obviously not seen many of the top guys this country has to offer.

Eddie is a better worker than the UK could even DREAM of producing. And his match with JBL, whilst not the best WWE main event ever, kicks the crap out of any FWA match I've seen this year (and I use FWA being as they're the biggest promotion in the UK). Rhyno might not be a better wrestler than Doug Williams, but one man is the UK has to be honest. Doug can hold his own but who else is there? Jonny is good, but nothing more than jobber material when put next to the Rey Mysterio's, Chavo Guerreros and Billy Kidmans. Jodie was good, but he's retired, so for the moment is obsolete. Alex Shane is a generic big man, no more talented than the Mordecai's and Tyson Tomkos, nowhere on the level of the Taker's, Kanes, or even A-Train's, and as good a talker as the UK has, which isn't a patch on the microphone wonders of the WWE.

 

And I like how you use Rhyno v Coach as an example. For a start, Coach isn't a full-time wrestler. For another, where are the other matches? Where's Benoit/HBK/HHH? Where's Benjamin/Christian? Where's Angle/Guerrero? Eugene/Conway? Guerrero/Lesnar? London/Kidman? One match involving a non-wrestler can't be considered the perfect example of the UK producing as good, if not better than the WWE. I've seen quite a fair few UK promotions live and on tape/TV, and I've seen good matches, and some great ones. But throw me a WWE video and a UK video to choose, and I'll take the WWE one.

 

 

As for the women, it's debatable. I've seen wrestling in the WWE and the UK, and it's pretty even to be honest, except UK fans show more interest. Not very impressed by Saraya from what I've seen. Nothing on the level of Molly and Victoria IMO (though anyone and their mums would match Lita). But that's down to personal preferance.

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I've not seen enough to say what's under and over rated, but Ice XVII, Majik, Conscience, White Tiger, Cameron Knite, Andy Hogg, Danny Oxman, Billy Grange & Chris Charizma are a bunch of people who deserve more respect as they're constantly putting on top notch matches and not getting anywhere near enough praise...but most of all they've all got charisma and really good characters which not enough people have now... people are too focused on hitting sick moves and doing "crazy spots" to think about their character and how to play it well.

 

Eric Canyon & CJ Hunter need to be in there as well... those guys are incredible and more people need to take a look at them. No-one seems to heard of them which is a real shame because they are 2 of the best young workers in the UK at the moment in my opinion.

 

I'm only going on who i've seen though and I really need to see more. There's so many people on the British Scene who people haven't heard of. With SWA, WZW, 3CW, FSW, BCW, MPW, FCW, WAR, GPW, IWF and the FWA all having a bunch of young talented workers and putting on regular shows there's an abundance of talent people won't have heard of or seen who will likely be incredably underrated. I'd love to see what a British Supershow with talent from every promotion would look like.

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And I like how you use Rhyno v Coach as an example. For a start' date=' Coach isn't a full-time wrestler.[/quote']

The fact that Coach isn't a full time wrestler is irrelevant. WWE put on that match. It was the pits. Jayden wrote "it makes me laugh when I read places that the people working in the UK put on better matches than the WWE". He didn't list people. He referred to matches. So did I.

 

As I said before. If you've never seen a match in the UK that beats the low end of the WWE product, then you're watching the wrong guys.

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The fact that Coach isn't a full time wrestler is irrelevant. WWE put on that match. It was the pits. Jayden wrote "it makes me laugh when I read places that the people working in the UK put on better matches than the WWE". He didn't list people. He referred to matches. So did I.

You referred to two matches, and one of them is very debatable. One match in thousands. And even then, how many UK matches can say they were more entertaining than most of the matches on Velocity? Ok, watching them live puts a different spin on them - but for example I watched EWW Resurrection the other day, and not ONE single match outdid anything on last weeks Velocity. Ok, that's one fed, but an ENTIRE fed, knowing full well that there are dozens worse off than EWW, and they can't even outdo Velocity. There are only several feds in the UK that can say they are "good" in my opinion, and they have only one or two matches that are better than only several of the WWE's lower end matches. And by lower end, we're talking Velocity levels, or "Jonathan Coachman" levels, in a match designed purposely to see a commentator get flattened, as opposed to two serious workers going at it. Big difference.

 

I know Jayden was generalising for the overall WWE product, but if you want to go specific, let's go VERY specific.

 

I'm a fan of the UK scene, don't get me wrong. But to say that a UK show beats a WWE show and that UK matches can rival UK matches when you're obviously meaning "the top end UK matches can beat very low end WWE matches" is just really taking the mick.

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But that's the point though, I was generalising so a specific argument wasn't realyl valid.

 

Yes I'm sure you can find one off matches that are better than the WWE's worst matches. That wasn't my point. My point was that I'd actually read people thinking the general standard of match you see at a UK show is better than that at a WWE show which is what I found ridiculous.

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Underrated. I know a few, and would like to promote them a little in this space to hopefully let people know they exist and are damn good.

First off Bubblegum is unbelievable. He is so damn good and will be a big star in the next couple of years, if not something is wrong with this business. Always exciting.

Kris Travis is another great young talent. He works hard and is sooo deserving of a big chance to impress.

Also Marc Mignot has a great character and even dragged me to a good match, as Travis has in tags, which isn't bad considering I am pants. Really really good.

Also think some oldtimers are really under-rated.

Keith Myatt and Blondie Barratt can wind a crowd up very well, and I know Keith can work with nearly anyone.

Johnny Kidd = awesome. Technically sound and brilliant.

Over rated.

Jack Xavier. Have seen three or four matches, and he doesn't do it for me. I know others like him but I can't get into him.

Loads of others, but can't pick out specifics.

Oh, Big Daddy. Only able to take so much pants wrestling even though great character.

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I think in general every wrestler at some point has overrated themselves, thought that they will be the next big thing in wrestling because they have this gimmick or they're that tall, etc.

 

Sooner or later, they find that it is a thankless, difficult and underpaid job. You can't be a professional wrestler if you are not paid for your services and you have to climb the ladder.

 

The FWA is "the Mecca" of British wrestling because it is on TV, so in a certain light it could be put out as "overrated" but they have also worked hard to get the deal and they deserve everything they have.

 

All Star are my faves for "underrated"

 

A lot of promotions spend more time working out highspots and promoting themselves on the internet rather than concentrating on entertaining the fans. Every wrestler who spends time entertaining themselves is most definitely overrated.

 

I've had the pleasure of meeting quite a few good wrestlers and, in my opinion, some bad ones for various reasons. But as a wrestler myself it's not wise to discuss those here.

 

Saracen

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