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so what does everyone make of the racism thats happening over the last few weeks?? the spain v england match, yorkie, neil lennon and lasnight i was really sickened in the madrid v leverkeusen match the madrid fans chanting at roque junior and then it showed fans with nazi tattos doing the nazi salute that made me sick. i seen in the a picture the other day of Raul & figo holding nazi flags smiling - that was pretty sick. what do yous make of it all??
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While I think racism is appalling, I think the reaction to minor cases of it has been taken too far in football.

 

Why? Because FIFA have said that they will back anyone who walks off the pitch in protest at racist behaviour from the crowd. In itself that is a very noble position to take. However, when you have Dwight Yorke's case causing a massive stir when only one or two fans get involved, what I think the outcome of this will be will be that teams who are losing and have black players or players from ethnic minorities will claim racism and walk off the pitch so that they don't get beaten. I honestly believe that this will happen, especially if the game is particularly important and not going well for the team who does it.

 

It's like players have forgotten that the opposition fans in football have a go anyway. People just about all thought it was hilarious when people were chanting at David Beckham that his wife took it up the a**e or accusing Arsene Wenger of being a paedophile, which is far more personal and worse in my view if it's not true than racism or any generic insult of that kind. While I don't condone racism, since the England game against Spain you'd have thought it was a new trend that had just been invented. I'm sure players have had worse before and had racism to contend with as well, which while it is terrible and should be eradicated, is being taken too far in the possibility of losing teams walking off the pitch and playing the race card.

 

As for Real Madrid, they have a massive set of hardore fans called 'los ochos' who take up a massive section of the southern end of the ground behind the goal. Raúl has kind of been the club representative on a lot of occasions in acknowledging them, so I'm not too surprised at that, although seeing Figo with them is a slight surprise. Real Madrid do acknowledge them as a group though because they are investors in Real Madrid and are from what I've heard quite heavily involved with them. You might be able to see them at games - in particular they have a flag with a white background and two eightballs (think the black in pool) on fire. Spain itself, being insular throughout history and not paying much attention to what's outside their own interests, is still pretty much institutionally racist in many areas, against blacks to an extent but especially against 'gypsies'. I doubt that will change much to be honest as while most people aren't violent in their dislike of such people, they can be insulting and discriminatory in many cases, which also applies here, but I think it's a bigger problem over there.

Edited by MillionLiraMan
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yeah i agree with the fact you said racism has always been going on, i was just really surprised to see them doin nazi salutes and stuff i knew they had racists at madrid but i had never really see them before.i think if players started walking off the pitch during matchs it wouldnt be good because they would be letting the racists win in a way. dwight yorke should have taken a leaf out of eric cantonas book
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Yeah the Dwight Yorke thing is a case of I wouldn't really criticise Dwight Yorke, I'm more alarmed by the fact that such a big deal has been made of it when only one or two fans were involved, because I think that will give more scope for teams to leave the pitch when they're losing and claim that a handful of fans abused them just to avoid getting beaten. It's not like racism should be condoned and the fact that it went on before England played Spain doesn't mean it should always be accepted, but I think that the reaction since then has become a bit on the hysterical side. In turn I'm maybe overreacting, but I really do think that you will start to see teams literally taking their ball and going home if they're losing in games when they can use racism accusations as an excuse to walk away and get a closed doors replay and another chance to get a better result.
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There does seem to be a problem with Spanish football and racism. I think the Dwight Yorke thing was blown out of proportion though. There is definitely not as big a problem with it in England as there is in Spain.

 

The Neil Lennon situation is really unfortunate. He is a mouthy little sod and I can totally understand why opposition fans dislike him but the stick he gets at Rangers is totally off. Mind you, speaking of minority things, I often read Scottish papers and you'd think that everyone in Northern Ireland drove him out of International football. He got booed by a minority in his first Northern Ireland game after signing for Celtic. This was met with outrage and rightly so but it was blown out of all proportion and picked up by the mainland media. Of course in Lennon's next game for Northern Ireland there was no booing and there were many of "There's only one Neil Lennon" chants but of course good news doesn't sell so the mainland media didn't bother their arses reporting it. Then came the death threat, which is very serious and Lennon then rightly quit.

 

Lennon does get a lot of uncalled for stick when he comes to Ibrox and it isn't right but it doesn't help matters when he starts gobbing on Rangers scarfs and his manager (who is increasingly acting like a man who knows his team is falling apart) comes on the pitch and starts giving the fists at the Celtic fans infront of about 40,000 Rangers fans. That just inflames the situation.

 

Nacho Novo has also been the victim of abuse this week. Someone painted "Novo R.I.P" after Saturday's game and he has had his car vandalised and tyres slashed. So it does work both ways.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. Basically, there does seem to be a problem in Spain because it seemed almost like half the stadium were making monkey noises. The Yorke thing was blown out of proportion, as was the stick Lennon got when he played his first game for Northern Ireland.

 

Stuff like him (and Novo) getting death threats though is very serious and worrying.

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Sectarianism in Old Firm circles is awful and Lennon does get a lot of undue stick, but he does bring a lot of it on himself as he is hardly blameless in terms of acting atrociously to the Rangers fans himself. Death threats though show how far some people can take this thing and only sour things further, if that's possible when you consider how bad they are anyway.

 

On the subject of that last Old Firm game, Celtic were disgraceful. Camara and Lennon should have been sent off and McNamara could easily have gone as well. The way they cynically gave up as soon as they gave away the penalty was mind boggling. The referee handled it well. I'd like to see something happen like the players who were allowed to stay on the field being hammered by vidoe evidence, because I don't think Celtic's Neil Warnock tactics of seemingly trying to get the game abandoned through sendings off should let them off the hook just because the referee either bottled sendings off or refused to allow even more of them to happen at the time.

 

Also, I criticised Alex Rae heavily for kicking Sergei Dadu in the head earlier this season and said that he shouldn't be on a football field if that is what he does on it. However, I now have to say that if he's going to do anything like that again, why not be useful and make it Henri Camara on the end of his studs next time?!

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I do feel sorry for yorke, and no matter what happens, racism is racism. The media have blown it up with good cause, shows these idiots up and shows were all behind black players such as Yorke. Cept half our board is an idiot, and basically said he should have walked away and ignored it. Why ignore a problem when it needs to be dealt with? We have quite a few black players at blues, but with part of the board saying stuff like that, they may think twice about playing under them.
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Arsene Wenger made the statement earlier today that he thinks it is wrong for players to leave the pitch if they hear racist chanting, and I wholly agree.

 

I'm not worried about the nobility of any players who walk off the pitch, I support their actions, but you need to confront racism, not ignore it. Whilst the Spanish fans in the Bernabeu would have been pissed off at Real and Leverkusen just walking off the pitch after 50 minutes, they would have scored a deeper psychological victory:

 

They would learn that their racism has the power to influence the course of a game.

 

Wenger mentioned that he can envisage the scenario: a home team losing 0-1 in game they must win, and not looking like winning, and then just starting up racist chanting hoping to get the game abandoned, and then you're left with a lose-lose situation.

 

1. If you walk off the pitch, they win

 

2. If you stay on the pitch and ignore racism you are condoning it

 

This is one thing that footballers cannot be held responsible for. The media would have to look inwardly at themselves. Espscially the dirty tabloids. The reason why they are so stuck for an answer to this problem is because they are the first people to stir up racist bile when something doesn't go their way and they can't admit that.

 

All it takes is fans, when they hear racist calls, to say "shut up". I am sure the racists are very, very outnumbered.]

 

Cheers!

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I agree that people who are shouting Racist abuse should be punished, and players/people should not have to put up with the abuse. However there is one main problem with everyone trying to stop racism, and that is it cant be stopped. I dont mean that in a "white power" type of way, what i mean is that people have different opinions, thats who we are. Everyone on this planet is unique and there is no way that you will be able to get everyone to have the same view. I am not condoning racism by any means, but everyone has different veiws which cannot be altered, therefore making it impossible to stop racist chants and abuse.

 

As for players being able to walk off if they hear racist chanting, thats not the way to go. By staying on the pitch, the player isnt condoning it, they are showing that they are above the abuse, it means nothing to them and that they can ignore it. Racism has no place in society, however we cannot stop it, therefore we as people should do our best to ignore the few that think racism is right. As Boyo said, i am sure racists are hugley outnumbered, therefore all it shoudl take is a few words to shut them up for at least the rest of the game.

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In the England game last week I felt the abuse was getting to Shaun Wright Phillips and I felt really sorry for him. Unfortunately this sort of thing does happen in certain countrys around the world and the best way to deal with it is, as Boyo said, ignore it and prove you're above it by giving your best regardless. Walking off is not the way to go although I can see why players would feel like they want to.

 

Governing bodies should do more to try and stop it, UEFA took a hard line at Slovakian fans a couple of years ago, I just hope the Spanish recieve the same treatment.

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An article I found at a newspapers website:

 

MARTIN O'NEILL is no stranger to players suffering sectarian abuse - he once told ex-Rangers star Ian Ferguson he should be big enough to laugh it off.

 

Dunfermline boss Jimmy Calderwood was forced to substitute Ferguson after he suffered a sickening afternoon of abuse at the hands of Celtic fans during a league clash at East End Park in March 2001 - just seven days after Neil Lennon was booed by Northern Ireland supporters while playing for his home country.

 

A mindless element of the away support subjected Ferguson to a torrent of bigoted chants because of his Ibrox connections and Calderwood later said: 'I heard the chants. Sometimes you have to protect your players and I did't want Ian getting himself sent off. It was partly because of his background.'

 

O'Neill was up in arms about such behaviour at the weekend and accused Rangers fans of being racists after the treatment dished out to Neil Lennon in Saturday's hate-filled Old Firm clash.

 

However, after his own supporters hurled abuse at Fergie three years ago the Irishman insisted it was all part of the game and it was impossible to alter tradition.

 

O'Neill said:'Ian has been in the game a long time and I think he'll be able to deal with any sort of treatment that is given out.

 

'I must remember to tell all the away fans behind me every single second Saturday to refrain from giving me abuse. I must tell the police.

 

'I think that would fall on deaf ears wouldn't it?

 

'As a manager of a football club I had it every single second Saturday - it happened at Leicester as well.

 

'You can take abuse but naturally if it crosses the dividing line where your family is given abuse it's a different matter.

 

'David Beckham had a similar problem down south but he has proved he can handle it. Everyone expects abuse. I expect it myself and you're asking me to change the traditions of a lifetime.'

 

Dunfermline played Celtic in a cup replay four days after the league clash and when pushed as to whether he would grasp the opportunity to tell Celtic's fans not to go down the same road again O'Neill said: 'I knew that was what you were angling for but I'm not going to do any of that.

 

'It is normal practice for players to get a bit of stick. Ian Ferguson is a big lad and I'm quite sure he can laugh it off.

 

'I will say you would have a concern if the abuse spills over into his family life. I don't think it's right when family is involved.'

 

Quite interesting really.

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