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The WWF is in Serious Trouble (Failing angles are causing its downfall)


Guest nWo Hogan
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Guest nWo Hogan

The WWF's product is one a serious decline and its ratings are falling. This is because the WWF are either booking silly and unwanted stories and not finishing them, or ignoring them altogether a few months later, criminally destroying and wasting talent or sticking a McMahon on every episode. Below are 16 angles from the last 18 -20 months or so that i thought of off the top of my head that have been failures. Now call me daft but 16 angles are alot alone to have in 18-20 months (proving that enough time isn't spent on build up and finish) alone let alone as just being some of the bad ones.

 

Mark Henry and Mae Young: Funny but ridiculous story line, which make's you wonder, what were they thinking.

 

Vince V Shane: Farther V Son feud. This was only booked to get Shane and Vince on more TV and polish there ego's. Again, a fued no one wanted to see.

 

The Radicalz: Saturn,Malenko,Guerrero,Benoit. Came in and were given a little 'hype' before angle was misused and disgarded. Total career waste for 3 of the 4 members. Malenko started jobbing to women,Saturn fell in love with mop (can't believe that a hard man like Saturn allowed this to occur), Guerrero started off okay but then lost momentum after Chyna link up. Only Benoit came out of this with any credit.

 

Who Ran Over Austin: After all the hype they destroy the reputation of the super 'over' face Rikishi and turned him heel and put him in feud with the Austin and the Rock that no one wanted,cared about, and was quickly ditched and forgotten. Rikishi's career has not been the same since.

 

Linda and Vince Divorce: The WWF starts to become more of a soap opera than ever before, in an angle that lasts for 8 months. The pitifull acting of Linda and the fact that no one cared or liked this angle saw it quickly forgotten and disgarded as if nothing had happened (don't they know we have memories), with no explanation.

 

RTC: Take the 'over' Val Venis,Ivory and the Godfarther and then destroy there gimmics by putting then with the bland and charismaless Steven Richards and Beau Buchanan. Angle sucked,was annoying and pointless. Richards and Buchanan ahve seen little or no TV time since and the other's have resorted back to there previous gimmics.

 

The Stalker: Having been given a few weeks of build up the 'stalker' is revealed as none other than DDP. The angle sucked and DDP's career since has been non existent, the feud lasted about a week and 1 match.

 

Kronik: Invaded the WWF in 1 week and attacked the bro's of destruction, by week 2 after the worst match of the year on PPV there ditched and never mentioned by the WWF again.

 

WCW/ECW Invasion: What everyone wanted to see. WCW v WWF. Sting,Goldberg,Steiner,Luger etc. No we get the entire lower card of the roster + DDP (who didn't even feature in the angle) and Booker T. The booking,decision making,creativity and every aspect was poor and wasted. 99% of WWF fans didn't even know who 99% of the invaders were, they then have to draft ECW into the equation and finally put top WWf talent into the angle to save it. Of the entire invasion only 1 guy came out with any credit: RVD. The result, total failure

 

Austin 'Heel' Turn: Take the most over WWF character in WWF and destroy his character by turning him heel and then later on in the year turn him into a complete p*ssy against Kurt Angle by crying,begging etc (so much for the toughest s.o.b in the business). The Austin character was seriously tarnished in 2001, thankfullyhe has reverted back to his 'over' and 'face' ways.

 

Spike & Molly Holly: Adding a daft and comical romance storyline

into the mix, did nothing to elevate either's career, as again its an angle that no one wanted.

 

The Hurricane: Mr Helms goes through about 4 different name changes in 1 month starting as Shane and then Gregory, Hurricane Helms and then The Hurricane. Gimmic straight out of the WWF's 1995 lets screw peoples career's up draw, entertaining for about a week, after that you realise how pitiful it is on screen.

 

Edge and Christian; Split up not given the amount of time needed to build up (think the Rockers), and then angle is quickly dropped when if managed right could have lasted alot longer and featured more malice (think Shawn Michaels on Marty Jannetty).

 

The Big Show: For a gut who's 7ft 2in and 550lbs the WWF doesn't seem to know what to do with him. Has been lumbered in numerous short lived tag-teams, allowed his weight to get out of hand and any feud has lasted a couple of weeks if that. Its a shame when you think that this guy is generally a threat to anyone on the roster. In that short feud with the Rock he really gave the Rock problems, pity he's treated as more of a comedy chracter now.

 

Matt and Lita, The Hardys split up: The Hardys and Lita seem to have split up and our at odds, for some reason the angle is dropped without explanation and they re-appear on Tv as if nothings happened. Again WWF we have memories.

 

Regal and the Brass Nuckles: This is pointless and looks to be soon ditched, poor angle only shows lack of creativity.

 

One of the biggest problems the WWF has is its necessity to put a McMahon on TV every episode. It juest shows that Vince has a major ego he needs to have exercised and that he's using the WWF to self serve and promote his Daughter and Son. Lets be fair people if we didn's see these guys on TV for 18 months, we'd enjoy wrestling alot more.

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Guest Perfection
Originally posted by nWo Hogan

One of the biggest problems the WWF has is its necessity to put a McMahon on TV every episode. It juest shows that Vince has a major ego he needs to have exercised and that he's using the WWF to self serve and promote his Daughter and Son. Lets be fair people if we didn's see these guys on TV for 18 months, we'd enjoy wrestling alot more.

 

18 Months??????

 

Forever :xyx

 

And i agree with absolutely everything you said there.

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A lot of those angles i do agree with you that the WWF went wrong somewhere...but the ones i disagree with are

 

Shane V Vince

A lot of people did enjoy it (i thought it was alright personally) and somehow it got to be rated as one of best matches of last year.

 

Mark Henry and Mae Young was Notfunny in the slightest. The WWF went wrong even by just creating that angle.

 

Who Ran Over Austin

The only guys career that it ruined was probably Billy Gunn (ive heard it was gonna be him that did it) it got Rakishi a title shot which was more than he woulda got as a mid card face.

 

RTC

It went wrong somewhere along the line, but it gave all 4/5 (count Ivory maybe) more TV time than they were getting already. Godfather and Val Venises gimmicks had to be got rid of as the WWF tried to clean up its content, even now both have watered down gimmicks.

 

Invasion angle

It wasnt that bad really...coulda been done better yes but I was reasonably happy.

 

I think the perfect one you picked out was Austins heel turn. Although i dont know why you didnt think he was great as a heel, he was many peoples Wrestler of the year for 2001. What i thought was pathetic about that angle was the fact that the day after Survivor Series, where Austin attempted to put WWF out of business, he was suddenly back as the hard man rattlesnake without an explanation in sight.

 

Moral of the Story: Too many McMahons on TV :)

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Finally after weeks of being a lone voice on the horrific fall from grace of the WWF i see that people who agree with me are beggining to emerge.Inept booking incoherent storylines and poor gimmicks are three of the biggest reasons why the WWf has been in steady decline for about the past 2 years.But the biggest problem of all resides with Stephanie Mcmahon herself it is no coincidence that since she has become head storywriter for the WWF the product has steadily disorientated into what can only be described as a cheap soap opera farce.She must see herself as a really big draw because she always insists on putting herself right in the middle of every major angle ,and i mean she has even been pushing herself and that pathetic divorce angle more than the Wrestlemania title match which actually has the potential to be a good match which would be a rare gem amongst the piles of fools gold that has been seen on our screens as of late.

 

 

Oh and speaking of angles without a finish one which sticks out in my mind and goes back quite a while is the whole issue with Kane.When he first entered the WWF the only way he could speak was by using an electronic voice box held to his throat because accordingly to the story his vocal chords had been badly damaged when he was "burned" in the fire blah blah blah ,yet now he speaks freely and often like any normal human being with the exception that he puts a slight "huskieness" in his voice(sorry couldnt think of a more appropriate word) and yet this is never mentioned or even questioned by either announcers or fans.I know its not really a major angle but it is the kind of integrity error that really grates me.

 

Ok another rant over geez i wish you guys would stop posting topics like this cos it really gets me started lol :xyx :xyx :xyx

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As a certain Mr Gunn used to say..."I've got two words for ya" and those two words are 'no competition'.

When wCw was posting good ratings the WWF had to be creative and come up with something good to close the gap and to get them in front.As we all know they came up with the era of Attitude which won back fans and helped bang the first nail in wCw's coffin.Now with wCw gone and no real opposition on the horizan the bookers and creative department appear to have taken their foot of the gas so to speak.

On recent WWF tv there has been an obvious lack of crowd heat during matches partly down to bad booking.The match quality has mostly been good but its not what the current WWF fan wants.They want catphrases and gimmicks before actual wrestling and when they come up with one which gets over (What?) then they are happy to milk it for all its worth.As long as the public keep buying t-shirts with What? and nWo on them then the same old cr@p is here to stay.

I would love to see Raw become a show concentrating on wrestling matches instead of lame angles but the WWF offers this on PPV and look at how many of those we have!.

What can be done in wrestling that has not already been done?.Nothing shocks the fans anymore and I cant see that changing until a rival for the WWF comes along and by the time that happens it may be too late.

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Guest edgehead2001
Oh and speaking of angles without a finish one which sticks out in my mind and goes back quite a while is the whole issue with Kane.When he first entered the WWF the only way he could speak was by using an electronic voice box held to his throat because accordingly to the story his vocal chords had been badly damaged when he was "burned" in the fire blah blah blah ,yet now he speaks freely and often like any normal human being with the exception that he puts a slight "huskieness" in his voice(sorry couldnt think of a more appropriate word) and yet this is never mentioned or even questioned by either announcers or fans.I know its not really a major angle but it is the kind of integrity error that really grates me

 

Well i remember one little segment that aired on RAW once..

 

It was when X-PAC and Kane where partners.. and they were trying to build up the fact that X-PAC and KANE were Great friends.. It was just after a match.. and Billy Gunn and Roaddog were with Kane and X-PAC in the ring.. X-pac was about to say Suck it.. Then Kane nicked the Mike and said it "The fans popped" then you heard JR saying "My god X-pac has taught Kane how to speak my god its amazing"

 

Thats how that happened...

 

Matt and Lita, The Hardys split up: The Hardys and Lita seem to have split up and our at odds, for some reason the angle is dropped without explanation and they re-appear on Tv as if nothings happened. Again WWF we have memories.

 

Well the RAW after Vengance Matt Hardy was at RAW.. and he saw JEFF and LITA GET thrown off of the STAGE by taker.. Then the smackdown Matt Defended them against TAKER... and Matt got beaten..

 

Then when they returned at the Rumble. They were back together because they made up

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Bout bloody time, I think this if the first time 5 or 6 people have all slated the WWF's current product without someone jumping down our throats defending them and telling us not to bother watching.

 

Agree with almost all that has been said here so I won't bother rehashing bits and pieces.

 

Crucial point, they need competition. It's the only thing that ever gets their asses into gear. Only problem for me is where is that going to come from. How do you create a fed over night that has the kinda fan base that the WWF has built over 25 years?

 

WWF have the roster, and whilst there are enough guys elsewhere to make a decent promotion, it would be difficult for one company to sign them all.

 

Vince I know she's your daughter but pleeeeeaaaasseeee do something before the billion dollar minger does any more damage to what you've created. Get yourself off TV too if you can.

 

Is the current WWF roster the best roster in wrestling history? It's not far off, look at all the talent they have. Then look at what they do with it.

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NNNOOOOO! this is exactly what happened to WCW in its dying days.

 

same storylines which make no sense and are given little or no real thought and also give us no explanation as to why when a man turns heel one night that he is suddenly pushed as a face the next.

 

what they need to do is put the title on a face and fastwith a big draw value. all i can say is HHH better win at WM or they could be out of bisuness in a few MONTHS!!!

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Why should HHH win at Wrestlemania? How will having a guy who is one of the worst faces ever get the WWF ratings? If he does win, he wont hold the title for long if he's a face, I thought most people woulda wanted to see Jericho get put over finally as a great champion.....

 

Also, Like I said, i think Austin was great as a heel, he was surely wrestler of the year in 2001, i just didnt like the way that everything was forgotten the day after Survivor Series.

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Thing is I think they've backed themselves into a corner with Jericho. They've booked his championship run so badly so far that it will be difficult to really put him over as a main eventer. They can't have him drop the belt as he'll lose all his credibility, but unless they have him beat HHH cleanly at Mania then they really haven't done him many favours, and we all know how likely that is to happen.

 

His first mini feud was with an upper mid carder (RVD), and they played the thing out as though RVD was too much for him to handle, well if RVD is too much for him then what about the company's megastars.

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WOW.... This is really turning into a bitch about the wwf thread. And on that note I'll add my two cents worth. Now is it just me or are the nWo a load of hyped up crap. Take all the hype at the begining Vince is wailing about how he's going to poison the wwf with them, and bury the company. And what happens? They come in at no way out stitch austin up, and from then on 2 out of the three of them start up with austin and rock. Now in the time since they've been here they've put Rock out for a couple of weeks and damaged austins leg. Hmmm thats really wrecking the the company. In my eyes this hasn't really gone like I thought it would. I was expecting them to put more people out of action, stir up some real trouble. But they've walked in and started on 2 people. Another case of all hype and no results I think.
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HHH is on a Team Chuky and billy type huge push of mega proportions so I wont be at all surprised if he gets the belt, hardly loosing a match (he lost one clean yet) and remember hes Stephs bloke...hmmm conspiracy there methinks.

 

Y2j has the belt and has run with it but anyone notice that when you are at the top you use less moves and the matches become normal. This is what has happened with the WWF.

 

See its now down to the fact that we have no competition which in reality might mean no where else for sponsors to cash in on the "sports entertainment phenomenon".

 

Someone above me posted about the crowds being quiet. Thats a bad thing and a good thing. When i had the chance to see them live the crowd would go quiet when watching some wrestling moves because they were interested... Take a look next time (WMx7 great example benny and angle) after the wrestling moves and take downs which were great to watch it went back to chops and stuff to almost wake up the crowd.

 

Suppose it might also come down to that if you have an undercard being more entertaining that the scsa v hhh v crock v angle fests that makes the top tier look bad = less interest in them = less sales of merchandise probably??

 

Anyone have ideas on how to stop the rot??

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Ok this is how I've seen it happen.

 

WWF's ratings started to drop thanks to some bad angles last year.

 

Vince pannicked, and deciding that his fanbase was one concerned with sports entertainment rather than actual wrestling he hired the nWo

 

ratings didn't improve despite the big names

 

 

Now maybe I'm completely wrong but Vince has pretty much tried everything to get this working again. Well not exactly.

 

He hasn't tried getting the product more focused on great in ring action.

 

He hasn't tried getting shot of Steph, both off TV, and as a storywriter.

 

He hasn't tried giving the books completely over to Heyman

 

He hasn't tried resurrecting the WCW name and giving those books to Flair for the second tv show.

 

He hasn't tried letting the Rock go be a film star full time.

 

Ok so maybe the Rock one wouldn't help ratings short term, but it would help bring back the more loyal fans. And whilst I know they are looking at getting the most exposure, appealing to a wide audience, but essentially I genuinely believe a fanbase of loyal and educated fans, like us (have any of us actually stopped watching WWF because we don't like their current programming? no) that is 3/4 the size is more profitable than one that consists of dumbass little kids who wet their pants every time the Rock whines on about what he's cooking. Hey I'm not knocking the kids (I think we were all one once), but how much money do they actually invest into the company? videos, merchandise, live shows etc etc. How much disposable income do they have? zip

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Guest nWo Hogan

As i stated earlier my biggest gripe at the moment is the McMahon everywhere syndrome. Why does Vince feel that he has to push himself and his kids on TV when the WWF survived for years without it. The reason ego. Its like an actor whose always cast as either the supporting actor or in bit part roles, he thinks he's a star and should be number 1, so he opens a film company and keeps casting himself in the lead role (no matter how bad the Movie is) just so he can be seen as number 1. Or the guy whose has a football team and always picks his boy even though he could be crap. Its the urge to over promote and show favouritism to your family and the ego's which result from it. I get the feeling that the McMahons think they're the star of the show and not the wrestler's, and that the product will suffer unless they're on screen, i hope they wisen up because this will be the downfall of the WWF. McMahon said about the nWo that he will kill the company.

Sorry Vince but you and your family don't need the nWo, your doing a damn fine job of it yourselves.

I think the WWF will revert back to its 1995/96 period very soon, scary isn't it.

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Guest nWo Hogan

I forgot to add this point as well.

 

Why is the WWf cappable or able to learn by WCW's mistakes, surely now its assimilated the Company into themselves they should know deeper information on the problems it suffered with. The alarming thing is that the WWF seems to be hell bent on emulating WCW's major faliures and shortcoming's, especially when the future of the business is concerned. here are a few Examples of thhe Comparisons between the WWF and WCW that caused the problem's and its downfall:

 

WCW Talent: WCW started to become ridiculed by the fact that it was pushing old marquee names (WWF has'beens it was called), who were all demanding control and the program suffered. WCW no longer wanted 48 and 50 year olds on every show.

 

WWF Talent: Alarmingly the WWF is doing the same thing, it is now negotiating with talent it used to ridicule as being old etc (Hogan and Savage for one), and has already brought in the nWo (none are under 43), Goldust (failed gimmic ended in 99, and in late thirties), DDP (46) Bossman (about 45-46) and Curt Hennig (43 and whose career hasn't been good since 93). Flair (52) is also back, McMahon (56) is now donning the tights again and theres talk of Ultimate Warrior (about 44), Brutus Beefcake (43) and Steiner (40) coming back. That and the continued push of Undertaker (43) etc show that the WWF is starting to resort to the old guard to generate ratings

 

WCW Angles: Miserable, silly,unfinished and unwanted angles (like the million incarnations of the nWo that occured) that were never finished, combined with poor bookings took its toll, and hardly any WCW performers looked happy about a year before the end

 

WWF Angles: Remarkably taking the same route (as stated earlier I counted 16 rubbish or unfinished angles over the last 18 months), poor angles booking's and creativity are leading to a steady decline.

 

WCW Ownership/management: Things all started to go wrong when Bishoff bought WCW out of trouble, the first time, granted it beat the WWF for 12-18 months but the financial and long term effect's were a killer. When it got itself in trouble it tried to buy its way back, like it had done before (Bret Hart, inflated salaries etc) and was chucking money at its big stars to keep them there (Hogan was on $350.000 per appearance at one stage), which escalated out of hand. The fact that Bishoff started featuring himself on TV more and more also contributed to its downfall, that and the appointment of Russo (the poorest of bookers) consigned it to the grave.

 

WWF Ownership/Management: With ratings falling the WWF has tried to buy itself out of trouble with the return of the nWo and Flair (these guys don't wrestle for peanuts), with talk of more old marquee names coming it it would appear that McMahon is trying to buy his way out of trouble. The whole setup with his children as bookers, them being on TV all the time, the buy success mentality, and the we know best and that's all that counts state of mind, means that the WWF is unlikey to improve in the enar future if at all. Very similar to WCW in alot of respects.

 

Basically my worry is that the WWF is gonna decline like it did early nineties (and it appears thata s long as Vince and Co get screen time it doesn't matter), with no WCW to save its ass. And unbelievably all because they can't stop the ego's from forcing them on TV

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