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*** WWE Vengeance 2004 PPV Discussion Thread ***


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PPV Quiz and Chat


As is our monthly tradition here at Talk Wrestling Online, we will be holding our monthly PPV Quiz and Chat night. Head over to the TWO chatroom at 8.00pm to enter our highly popular quiz, with your host Colin!. Then from 9pm until 1am, why not stay along for a good ol' chat about the PPV with all the TWO regulars? The more, the merrier.


WWE Vengeance Quiz and Chat

Sunday 11th July

(UK Times)


Quiz: 8.00 - 9.00pm

Chat: 9pm - 1am


For more info see:



PPV Prediction League


Post your predictions below – anyone can enter!




  • World Heavyweight Championship
    Chris Benoit © vs. Triple H
  • Intercontinental Championship
    Randy Orton © vs. Edge
  • Tag Team Championship
    La Resistance © vs. Ric Flair & Eugene
  • Kane vs Matt Hardy
  • Chris Jericho vs Batista
  • Victoria vs Molly

Preview articles @ Wrestling 101


T3C: WWE Vengeance 2004 Preview - by Stephen Ashfield


TAT: WWE Vengeance 2004 Predictions - By Boyo


How to order the PPV



Live on Setanta Sports:


Sky - Press 'Select' on remote control or Call 08708 500 005


NTL - To order and event, press TV on Demand


Telewest - To order an event, press TV on Demand or Home on the day of the event and select Special Events from the Pay Per View menu.


Broadcast Details:


Sunday Jul 11:

Midnight - 01.00am - WWE 1 hour Countdown

01.00am - 04.00am Live WWE Vengeance




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I can't see Triple H jobbing clean to Benoit again. However, I don't see what giving HHH the title before Summerslam would achieve (well, I don't see what it would achieve in general, but thats beside the point). If they do that, all they could conceivably have at Summerslam would be a rematch, which the game would no doubt win. Therefore, two HHH wins in a row against Benoit, which I think would ruin the superb push he's received so far, and reiterate that HHH is better. A sickening prospect, no?


Anyway, to make a long story painful; WWE are probably looking towards Summerslam as one of their big four, and hoping to make it as good as possible. So I think Benoit will leave Vengeance with the belt - but not after a clean win. BTW, not to sound like a broken record, but Jericho vs Benoit at Summerslam would be SO much better.


As for the rest - I don't see Orton losing his title at a b-level ppv. And I don't think he should lose it to Edge anyway - Edge has already had it a bunch of times. I'm sure Eugene will be booked to win, so "the feel-good story of the summer!" can continue. I'll be mightily pissed if Jericho loses to 2-move, no personality, doesn't even figure on the Evolution t-shirt Batista. And Kane vs Matt Hardy - well, I doubt they're gonna job their carefully cultivated monster to someone they haven't pushed in so long. Pity.


As far as ppvs go, I don't think it'll be anything special. But Benoit's presence in the championship match at least guarantees an good main event.

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Cant wait for Vengeance Tonight, I think Edge will be the new IC Champ but ive gone for Orton on my predictions cause i want him to win.


P.S. Why are they showing this garbage preview show with Todd Grisham, thats been on for the past 2 weeks rather than showing Heat?

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Good show. Worth the £15 in my opinion.



- Tajiri/Rhyno v Coach/Cade was a great opener. Someone obviously loves Tajiri, and Rhyno is doing something right by the looks to get the win. Very impressed with Cade and Tajiri in this one. Good opener, fans into it.


- Jericho v Batista was good. Jericho got one of the biggest pops of the night. Match itself, a bit of a mesh of styles, but Batista came off well, and Jericho worked hard. Good match, good result, did nothing to harm anyone.


- Eugene/Flair v La Resistance was a nice match. You could see all four men were having an absolute blast out there. The finish was stupid though. I fail to see how it progressed anything, got La Resistance over, or benefitted Eugene in any way.


- Kane v Hardy was good. Kane looked very dominating, and Hardy bumped well. I like how Kane won't hit Lita, but Hardy had no reason to win. If it's gonna be a prolonged feud, why not have Kane win to make him be the monster? Unless that's on it's way. I just feel they strength him on TV to knock him down on PPV every single month.


- Edge v Orton was excellent. Match of the night without question for me. The beggining was good, the middle was a little slow, but it told a good story and it was the only match where the crowd totally ate up the ending (without need for ref bumps or any third parties). And the ending was totally unexpected and nail-biting. Great work by both men. They definately earned my respect. Credit to the fans too for being very split between cheering Orton and Edge.


- Molly v Victoria, typical decent WWE womens match, that I didn't really care about because Victoria just simply looked major hot. I just crave her so badly after every show, and only Dawn Marie comes close to matching her beauty (although she doesn't). Glad 'toria won.


- Benoit v HHH was a good match, but nothing special. Definately not match of the night when it should have been. Bit too much like the other matches for me. They all seemed to follow the same slow paced middle with heel domination and scarse bits of face comeback. The ending was cool, but the ref was out for far too long. And the Eugene stuff was good, but predictable. And although it progresses the storyline, it looked more like a plea to get Eugene over, rather than benoit, who as champion should be the focal point. I also thought it stupid for Benoit to hit Eugene, when it was obvious he'd be boo'ed. It was just too predictable and pretentious in my book. But alas, the right guy won.



Overall, was still an enjoyable show. Orton/Edge was worth every penny, and the crowd were into it. JR and King did a good job, and MY GOD how quickly does Orton go over the top rope when clotheslined over it. I thought the video fast-forwarded. But yes - good show :)

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Results From WO:



We're looking for your thoughts on tonight's show, so please leave a thumbs up, thumbs down or thumbs in the middle along with a best and worst match to dave@wrestlingobserver.com.


Welcome to our live coverage of Vengeance from the Hartford Civic Center.


Val Venis vs. Tyson Tomko is the Heat match. Tomko won with a high kick. Nidia was in Venis' corner. Tomko stalked Nidia after the match with Venis down. Maven then made the save with a dropkick and left with Nidia. Tomko had a bad match.


Coachman & Garrison Cade vs. Tajiri & Rhyno is the opener. Tajiri blew mist in Cade's face and Rhyno gored Cade out of the ring. In the ring, Tajiri pinned Coachman after a high kick. Due to Tajiri, it was a decent opener.


Flair wants an explanation for HHH. He doesn't want to team with Eugene. However, Eugene has disappeared. HHH wanted to find him. Benoit was talking with Eugene in the hall and told him HHH was using him to get the title. Well, that guarantees who picks the winner tonight by who he interferes for. HHH was unhappy seeing this.


Jericho vs. Batista is up next. Batista dominated with his power and won with a power bomb. Ref Earl Hebner missed Jericho's leg on the ropes. Batista had a bad match.


HHH told Eugene that he knew what Benoit said. He said Benoit was a liar. To prove he was Eugene's friend, he let Eugene wear one of Flair's famous blue robes to the ring.


La Resistance vs. Flair & Eugene for the titles is next. Eugene went berserk and threw down ref Mike Chioda for the DQ. Eugene worked like he was Flair early. Flair tagged in, did a few things and mostly sold until the finish. Flair & Eugene worked as the faces.


Kane vs. Matt Hardy no DQ is next. Matt Hardy won via pinfall when he used a chair to ring steps that Kane was holding. The steps fell on Kane. Match didn't have as much heat as you'd think for such a major grudge, but nobody had any faith in Hardy after how he's been booked. Kane choke slammed Hardy and was trying to use the ring steps when Lita came in to stop him. After the bout, Lita wanted to talk with Hardy, but he was mad she put herself at the risk of being in the ring with Kane in case he turns on her, and then blew her off. This was the best match so far.


Randy Orton vs. Edge for IC title is next. Edge won in 26:36 with a spear after Orton was whipped into an exposed turnbuckle. This was an excellent match. Tons of great near falls playing off everything both men have. I was so impressed with the timing between the two and the poise that Orton has gained in recent months. The Foley match was just as good, but I think as a performance in leading a match, this was the best match I've seen Orton wrestle. Crowd was chanting for both. Edge was booed a lot early but not by the end.


Molly vs. Victoria is up for a title shot when Stratus is healthy. Got a feeling this will be short. Victoria won with a superkick. People weren't into it in this position on the card, but Victoria did a hell of a job here, particularly selling her shoulder.


HHH vs. Benoit is left with Eugene deciding the finish in about 30 minutes. They had a very good match. Eugene was out after a ref bump as Benoit had the crossface on HHH, but he refused to get the ref. HHH hit the pedigree and Eugene got the ref, but Benoit kicked out. Eugene kept both HHH and Benoit for using chairs on each other. Eugene and Benoit were fighting over the chair, Benoit let go and Eugene fell back with the chair hitting HHH in the head. Eugene was crying that he screwed up while Benoit schoolboyed HHH for the win.


Thanks very much for joining us.

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I'm extremely pissed off that Randy Orton jobbed to that damned idiot Edge. There is something about Edge that I honestly really despise. Maybe its that he is a scrawny little pretty boy trying to act like a tough guy, I dunno. Whatever the case, Orton should have gone over for sure.

What good does it do putting the title on a man who had already held it four times?! Orton should have held it for another 10-12 months, broke Honky's record and then challenged for the World title, I love Orton and dont want to see him rushed to the top spot.

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JR and King did a good job


i agree it was a good show and i basically agree with your analysis, expect for that part


they made alot of mistakes, including the biggest and stupidest which was JR stating it was the first one on one PPV with triple h and benoit, when they fought at no mercy 2000...he made 3 or 4 other factual mistakes as well, but i guess that's nitpicking


the show was very enjoyable, although i wanted orton to break honky's record and it seems alot of others feel the same way

Edited by tazz13
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Edge Becomes Five-Time Intercontinental Champion


Win leaves Evolution without gold at Vengeance PPV...


By defeating Randy Orton at the Vengeance PPV, Edge became fifth person to have held the Intercontinental Championship five times (the other four are Rob Van Dam, Chris Jericho, Triple H, and six-time champ Jeff Jarrett).

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Vengeance was in my view very good and the second best ppv of the year behind wrestlemania by far the best of the brand split ppvs sin ce they started. all 7 matches were good apart from possibly the womens match even though it was a number one contenders match in my view it was a nothing match it was obvious that victoria was gonna win cos they were never gonna make a trish [heel] vs. molly [heel] match. Randy orton is in my view the best wrestler on Raw at the moment he never dissapoints and even though triple h is my fave. wrestler orton is even outperforming the game in my view. It was good to see that some surprise outcomes in matches such as batista beat jericho and Matt hardy beating Kane. I have to say that eugene despite costing triple h the title is very entertaining his gimmicks as ric flair were uncanny and very funny. I can honestly say that i think evolution might becoming to an end soon as well. they maybe might have another couple of months together but come survivor series i can't see them bein together. Randy Orton will soon leave to go after the World title. Triple H will be making a movie in the near future, it is time that batista was on his own because frankly the size of him he doesn't need to be in a faction. and Flair will become a face sooner rather than later. I can't Wait for Summerslam now i love when both brands come together cos i don't think smackdown can hold down a ppv by themselves but when they r joint smackdown does produce like at wrestlemania. So any way i give vengeance a very strong 8/10
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i agree it was a good show and i basically agree with your analysis, expect for that part


they made alot of mistakes, including the biggest and stupidest which was JR stating it was the first one on one PPV with triple h and benoit, when they fought at no mercy 2000...he made 3 or 4 other factual mistakes as well, but i guess that's nitpicking

True. I did notice a few mistakes (although I would guess the WWE wanted to push this as their first encounter, not just a mistake from JR), and I noticed I tihnk he called Matt "Jeff". However, I think they had good chemistry together tonight (sometimes they don't) and I think JR in particular called the matches well, rather than spending the whole undercard talking about the main event. And Lawler kept himself calm, whilst putting the heels over (did well in getting Orton over imo), and I think it was one of their better showings.

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For the people complaining Randy Orton lost the IC Title is probably the reason is because he will probably be facing The Rock at SummerSlam, and the match is too big for an IC Title Match. :thumbsup . Although as someone said i would have liked it if Randy Orton broke the Honkey Tonk Man's Record....
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my vengeance opinions


Vengeance was a great show. The match that i really enjoyed was the Intercontinental Championship match.


Tajiri & Rhyno vs. Garrison Cade & Johnathan Coachman- 6/10

Chris Jericho vs. Batista- 6.5/10

Eugene & Ric Flair vs. La Resistance- 5/10

Kane vs. Matt Hardy- 7/10

Randy Orton vs. Edge- 9/10

Victoria vs. Molly Holly- 5/10

Triple H vs. Chris Benoit- 7/10


Overall- 7/10


Good show.

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Benoit still has the title and HHH doesn't so I won't complain.


Although I have to question giving Edge the IC belt again... I'm hoping that won't ruin whatever heat they'd actually managed to build up for Randy Orton. Does it make me a bad person for just not finding Edge entertaining?


I'm not pissed off since Orton didn't break Honky Tonk's record... I don't rate Orton highly enough to deserve such an honour, but to lose his IC title to the big chinned limbo man is a bit harsh.


Apart from the IC title match, everything seems to make sense to me. Now let HHH move on... though if Edge turns heel then that pretty much ruins the Edge v HHH storyline. Surely no more Benoit v HHH!

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oh well HHH hasnt won back the World HHH Belt so i presume that Benoit will have it removed at Summerslam. I agree with the orton sentiments, his match with the rock is way above IC belt status - they also wont let him lose 2 PPV in a row. This allows for an Edge heel turn or perhaps he can just go home? If he turns maybe Shelton will be back in time for Summerslam. If not maybe he is good enough to carry Big Dave through a singles match.


Why are the WWE so intent on destroying Eugene, he's gone from crowd favourite to the WWE village idiot

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i thought the GAB was better then vengeance sadly


Taker - everyone is entitled to their opinion and i respect that but could you please elaborate as to why you prefered GAB to Vengeance. IMO the two arent even comparable as GAB was the biggest pile of crap ive seen in a WWE ppv for many years, and it appears most on this forum would agree that vengeance was far superior - im just curious as to what you thought was so great about GAB / so poor about Vengeance?


I'd personally like to see Christian get a run at Edge now assuming Orton is gonna be out of the IC picture for a while - i think their matches and promos would be quality. It seems to me that theyve ignored Edges mic ability since his return and a bit of verbal sparring would get him more over with the fans as his popularity has definitely waned since he returned.

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Well the plan is now to possibly turn Edge heel since he got booed pretty heavily for the first half of the match. Even JR and King had to acknowledge the "Let's go Orton" chants. Just goes to show the WWE than not all fans fall for their programmed "Face/heel let's shove Edge down your throat so you'll like him" drive.


I think Orton thoroughly deserved it too. Although Edge held up his end of the bargain, Orton was fantastic last night, and continues to become so much better by the week. He's definately got a bright future.

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What would be the point Edge turning heel when he just said that he's gonna take Evolution down 1 by 1 :?


But if Edge turns heel at least we wont have to see that entrance, he looks like a monkey :lol

Edited by MARTIN316V1
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I'm becoming a huge Randy Orton fan. Especially since I saw him live in the flesh. He's one helluva talent. It makes little sense that they would have him lose the title to Edge, and at a b-level ppv as well, but greater things are in store for the legend killer . . . . . . matter of fact, he may have to kill HIMSELF someday (geddit? :lol)


Can't wait for Orton vs Rock.

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The problem with Orton is if they turn him face, he'll likely suck. That's the problem, WWE hears the fans cheering and will turn him prematurely then whatever the fans liked about him in the first place will be changed!


I'd be interested to see if Orton could pull off being a really top face, I've my doubts at the moment.

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