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Far Be It From Me To Criticise, BUT. . . . .


E2K
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There was an interesting post by Russ in another forum that got me thinking. Now I know the whole McMahon-bashing thing has probably been done to death, but I’m not starting this thread to mindlessly criticise the McMahon family. I’d just like to get other people’s views on this. Here’s what Russ said:

 

If 99% of promoters in the world had a third of WWE's roster' date=' power and finance, every single show would be spectacular. So how come WWE, which has the best wrestling roster in the world, can manage to make half of their shows awful, and the other half only passable? The management[/quote']

 

Now, far be it from me to criticise how Vince McMahon runs his business. As far as businessmen go, Vince has got to be among the best. As far as wrestling promoters go, he IS the best, simply because he’s been doing it longer and better than anyone else. And I know I probably wouldn’t have the first clue on how to run a company like that, so hats off to Vince on all his achievements, BUT . . . . . I think there’s a lot of merit in what Russ said.

 

First off, look at all the talent blatantly going to waste in WWE right now: Jericho, Booker T, RVD, Matt Hardy, and a whole locker-room of cruiserweights are all being overlooked in one way or another. Then look at all the talented wrestlers who have left the company in the past couple of years: Lesnar, Goldberg, Sean O’Haire, Kanyon, Raven, Steve Austin. Some of these left because the WWE just didn’t think they were good enough. Some left over business issues. Now look at all the money WWE waste in big money contracts to sub-standard people: Steiner, Mark Henry, Kevin Nash, to name just three. Finally, look at all the less than talented people getting pushed at the expense of others: A-Train, JBL, Batista to name three.

 

Now am I wrong in thinking that these kinda business practices are wrong? I don’t wanna seem like a know-it-all, but sometimes its hard not to voice this kinda opinion. Why are Jericho, Booker T and RVD not deemed good enough for a main event spot when most fans you ask express the opinion that the main event scene needs improvement, especially on Smackdown? Why is A-Train rated higher by WWE’s new chief of talent relations, Johnny Ace, than Matt Hardy? Why do WWE sign cruiserweights at all? Why is Mark Henry still contracted when he’s completely useless? Why is he on good wages when WWE go to other talented wrestlers with the poor mouth everytime there’s a contract negotiation? How much money is Steiner being paid to sit at home for the remainder of his contract?

 

And its not just that. Why would WWE rather lose Steve Austin altogether than allow him a little leeway in negotiating his own business deals? Why would they let Goldberg go rather than allow him to take the odd overseas booking? Why were Raven and Kanyon not good enough, but A-Train and Chuck Palumbo are? And I haven’t even mentioned the buy-rate-killing storylines (Katie Vick anyone?).

 

And of course, my favourite pet peeve, the backstage politics. They may have always been in wrestling, and probably always will be, but there is nothing more offensive to me as a wrestling fan than when my enjoyment of the show is ruined, my money wasted, by somebody’s overblown ego. That also seems to happen a lot today in WWE, and I can't honestly get my head around just why someone like Vince would let that king of thing go on in his own company.

 

Armed with all the questions I’ve just mentioned, I think any WWE fan is entitled to query the way the company is being run at times

Edited by E2K
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I'm glad everyone didn't start analysing everyone who I said I hated in that post, I don't think I could cope with 9 other threads on Christine Hamilton, Jade and J-Lo. :)

 

But yeah, you've got a point in saying that I've got a point. It is frustrating to know that if TNA had half of the guys at their disposal that WWE isn't using just now, their TV shows would increase dramatically in quality.

 

As you say, the McMahons are obviously doing something right to keep them at the top for so long, but that doesn't mean they're perfect. As I've said before, if you put any creative art or form of entertainment in the public domain and expect people to pay money for it, you've got to expect criticism. There's no point in not complaining when WWE puts on a stinker of a show, because you're just cheating yourself.

 

The bottom line is, if more people realised that WWE isn't the be all and end all of wrestling, then Vince and his gang would have to waken up. If fans stop watching the shows, WWE are more likely to try out new thing to see if they work. That being said, it's not exactly easy for the public to create a rival for WWE when there's just so little potential competition. And I feel that it's going to stay that way until someone like Ted Turner decides to invest big time in a new promotion.

 

Just remember though, next time you watch a WWE show, imagine if your local promotion a few miles away managed to get ahold of one or two of the guys not being used by WWE just now. My guess is that they'd use the talent better, and put on a better overall show. WWE aren't perfect, but in the USA at least, they've got the roster, the power and the money, so I can't see them falling in the near future unless something drastic happens.

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Again, true. Lets take Jerry Lynn and AJ Styles as an example. I'm not really in the position to see these two guys wrestle, but anytime I read about a match they've been in (be it for ROH or whoever), the words "brilliant" or "fantastic" are usually used in describing the quality of said match. And Lynn was brilliant in ECW as well (or so I've heard).

 

But remember when Jerry Lynn was in WWE? He wasn't even used in the Invasion angle (which involved ECW), and when he finally got the chance to recreate his ECW matches against RVD, the match eventually ended up being edited to showcase RVD. And as for Styles, WWE don't really seem interested in signing him at all. They really don't make sense to me sometimes.

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its a difficult one to call, on one hand i do agree with your views on letting o'haire and kanyon going and why he continues to employ wastes of sp*nk like a-train and palumbo.

 

However how can you say he is wasting talent like y2j and booker t, y2j has his own slot (highlight real) on the wwe's "flagship broadcast" raw every single week, he's involved in every raw ppv and has just come of a decent long built up feud with the c-man which culminated in a classic cage match main evening raw. As for the Book man, again he's been involved in semi top line feuds since the invasion angle in 2001 and is currently feuding with the undertaker in another topline sd feud. And just because he never won the "world title" at mania 19 everyone says he was held back by hhh. Well i'm sorry, but booker t never really made any impact as 5 time wcw world champion did he. And i bet the same people who were crying out for hhh to lose the belt, are the same people who are saying the belts are losing there heritage due to to many title changes. Remember people not everyone can be a world champion.

 

As for losing steve austin, again this is a difficult one, let me make clear i am a huge huge austin fan, but lets face it his act as the sheriff was getting a little tiresome and he was constantly overshadowing some of the wrestlers on raw (although thats not his fault) his value as a performer has dropped, and vince knows that, so he was just doing the thing that any business man would do, and that is renegotiate his contract, he had obviously weighed up the pro's and cons of the situation and feels at this time its in the companies best interest to let austin go. This can benefit the company, as now on raw theres more time for the likes of orton, benoit, edge, christian and y2j.

Politics will happen in every place of work, and just because you hear Chinese whispers on the internet about one talent not jobbing for another, it doesnt necessarily make it gospel does it.

 

Vince knows his talent, he has people employed watching his talent and if news of employees behaviour can reach millions of people on the world wide web, i'm sure he knows whats going on, and i bet he deals with it in his own way, like all managers of companies do.

 

At the end of the day not everyone can be happy with the product, whether its fans, critics, employees, smarks etc........

 

and all the arm chair bookers and critics who continue slag of the product and slag of certain wrestlers getting pushes need to step back and take another look at it. Its entertainment. Let yourself be entertained, sure be cross when your favourite wrestlers doesnt get the belt, but don't look to deep into the reasons why he never got the belt and put all the blame on other parties involved.

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Well, you made some good points there, but I wouldn't consider myself an armchair booker at all, and I do allow myself to be entertained. For example, even though Smackdown isn't great right now, I still watch it, and am still entertained every week by Eddie, Cena, Chavo (yeah, thats right, CHAVO), Booker, etc. However, you finish watching WWE shows these days, and often the frst words that come to mind are "It would've been better if . . . ."

 

Like Russ said, its a case of being short-changed, and if you feel like that, you're entitled to voice an opinion. On the subject of Booker and Jericho, I feel short-changed. Why? Because though both men are conspicuous enough on Smackdown and Raw respectively, they could be doing so much more. I have no doubt that both men would be brilliant champions, and would freshen up the main event scene greatly. I don't feel like I have to defer to the WWE booking committee's knowledge on this point; they're wrong and thats all there is to it. I mean, Jericho is having to try to make Tyson Tomko look like a decent wrestler, while JBL is getting title shots. See what I'm gettin at?

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i am a y2j fan, but some wrestlers are not world championship material, he had his shot being undisputed champion and whether you admit it or not, he failed. i think he is doing an excellent job in the position he is currently in, upper mid card.

as for booker t, i dont rate him, as i said he's been in semi toplinr fueds for 3 years now and of hand i cannot think of any singles match of his on ppv which has stole the show, again, i think he is entertaining, but not championship material.

Jbl gets title shots, but so have the wrestlers you named that are being held back,

jbl, i think has been fair-good in his role, his time on the mic has been a little to much, but he delivered a more entertaining match at the last ppv than booker t has in 3 years, (and matt hardy in singles competition for that matter)

i understand at the end of every show you may think it could have been better, but thats human nature.

as for y2j having to make tyson tomko look a decent wrestler, that is a testament to his ability, and a role which he will be good in, he can be used to elevate wrestlers and give them the superstart rub which they need to get ahead.

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Well, as far as Bokker goes, I don't think he's been given a chance to shine. Since he arrived in WWE, he's been given nothing like the kind of push he had in WCW. First he was portrayed as a Rock wannabe, then put in a feud with Edge over a shampoo commercial, then put in tag team feuds with Goldust, then buried by HHH at mania 19 (a fact). And the problem I have with it is that he's so much better than that. As for Y2J, only my opinion, but he was fed to the lions with that title reign. I've already talked about it in another thread, but he had no support whatsoever from the booking team. And Matt Hardy hasn't been given a chance.

 

As for JBL, the problem I have with that is the likes of Booker are just better than him, but its only my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.

 

And IMO, not even Kurt Angle could make Tomko look good.

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how do you get more of a chance than challenging for the world title at mania-booker flea and fighting the taker on ppv and fueding with austin aswell for a short period.

matt hardy fought mysterio at mania for the crusierweight title!!!! isnt that an opurtunity.

y2j fighting austin n rock in one nite is that not an oppertunity??

u canot get any better chances than the above.

what chances has cena had then? he sees to get himself over without half the chances the above have had?

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how do you get more of a chance than challenging for the world title at mania-booker flea and fighting the taker on ppv and fueding with austin aswell for a short period.

matt hardy fought mysterio at mania for the crusierweight title!!!! isnt that an opurtunity.

y2j fighting austin n rock in one nite is that not an oppertunity??

u canot get any better chances than the above.

what chances has cena had then? he sees to get himself over without half the chances the above have had?

 

Well ok, you could call those oppurtunities, no doubt about it. But as far as those examples go, it would also be a fair point to say that WWE gave with one hand and took with the other. Like I said, I spoke about Jericho's title reign in another thread so I don't want to repeat myself too much. But Jericho got very little support from the booking team during his reign, and while I'm not saying he was perfect by any means, he was let down badly. Thats all I'll say. If you want my full opinion on that, go here http://www.talkwrestlingonline.com/forum/showthread.php?p=121175#post121175

 

Its equally true of Booker to say he was let down. Fighting for the World title at Wrestlemania does indeed seem like a wonderful oppurtunity, but it seems less so after watching him being effectively squashed by a man who's spent the build-up to it alluding disparagingly to his race. How humiliating.

As far as feuding with Austin went, it didn't. They didn't even have a ppv match.

 

And I believe Matt Hardy had about seven minutes at that particular event, less than Fred Durst and the Miller Lite Girls. And we all know how much stock WWE places in said cruiserweight championship. Poor V1 ended 2003 as WWE's chief jobber, having lost cleanly to just about everyone, including Zack Gawain.

 

As for Cena, he's been given good oppurtunities in my opinion. His gimmick is designed to get him heat and get him over. He has funny promos/raps written for him. Last year, he had long term and meaningful feuds with Angle, Benoit, Undertaker and Lesnar, and a major role at Survivor Series. Like I said, good oppurtunities.

 

What I'm talking about are proper oppurtunities, the chance for a wrestler to prove that they have what it takes LONG-TERM to be a major player. That requires long-term help from the top brass, and sadly, in the above cases its always been lacking

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and Booker T hasnt had long term meaningful fueds with anyone.........Rock, Austin, HHH now the Undertaker, He has fought everyone whos a main eventer and not cut it. we can debate it all day, so we will have to agree to disagree.

As for Cena, he has not had a feud longer than 2 months with any of the above wrestlers you mentioned, so i would not call that long careful thought out booking.

When Cena debuted his rap gimmick, everyone thought it would fall flat on its ass, but he has managed to get it over, and thats not down only down to good booking, thats down to his ability to portray the charachter.

you seem to put across the opinion that everything is down to booking, and while i agree that the booking has a huge amount to do with a wrestlers success, booking can only take a man so far. c lex luger 93, diesal 95, gunn 99.

overall i think the wwe could be doing better, but then again its could be doing alot worse.

Myself, i prefere to look at the positives rather than the negatives. I understand people want to see the best show they can every time they tune in or attend an event, but this just isnt possible

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