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Now Hook Off!


Cactus Jack
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I'm sure you've heard, but Hook is being extradited to USA. My questions are why the hell does it take an external goverment to the job that all British wanted, and why couldn't re kick him out due to our own laws, yet we are free to extradite him to another country almost immediatly?

 

Any Legal Eagles :?

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Wrong wrong wrong, Jack Bibby.

 

We are not punishing him because he could face the death penalty. In fact, Great Britain will NOT extradite anyone to any country if that country says they are going to kill someone. The other country's laws have to be similar to ours in order for them to be extradited.

 

And before some smart-ass quotes a liberal newspaper: Tony Blair did not come running when G W Bush called. There is the reason why we didn't extradite this odious man to the Yemen a couple of years ago when they wanted him. Their human rights record is shoddy at best and they would have killed him.

 

Cactus, I understand your frustrations: it seems like we are being bailed out by the Americans because we couldn't punish this man. But look at it this way. Like it or not, whatever this grotesque hook-handed dickhead says, he has the right to say it. He can applaud all the suicide bombings, and all the 9/11 atrocities that he wants, he has the right to. Could we do him for inciting violence? No, because he incited no violence. Could we do him for inciting racial hatred? No, because what he was saying, no matter how grotesque, was to people who believed it too.

 

If we were to incite him for stirring racial hatred, this Hook guy will then see about the downfall of the British tabloid media. Why? Because what he was saying was to his own fans in his own church, what the tabloids were doing was reprinting private preachings to the nation. THEY were inciting racial hatred. Not him. It hurts, but it's true.

 

And before someone else says "but he was standing in the middle of north London saying these things"...NO HE WAS NOT. Hook runs a mosque in n.London, and he preaches this garbage to people who believe it. He never ONCE preached this to the public. Yes, they have photos of him standing outside the mosque, talking to people outside the mosque, of course they do, he does go there every day.

 

We can't do him for anything. We can't do him for claiming benefits, he's entitled to them. We can't do him for inciting violence, he incited no violence, in fact it was the tabloids who tried to do this. We can't do him for inciting racial hatred - again - the tabloids.

 

We'll send him to our ally, USA. They have a law where if they *suspect* you of being a terrorist they can lock you up without trial. Good bye Hook!

 

Tony Blair simply cannot win:

 

1. He does nothing about Hook, he gets accused of incompetance

2. He gets British police to arrest Hook, he gets accused of breaking human rights laws

3. He extradites him to the Yemen, he gets accused of sending a man to death when the British extradition laws say they should not do this.

4. He extradites to the USA, he gets accused of bowing down to Bush

 

Cheers!

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your right on a lot of that boyo. its a shame when our country allows one man to say one thing and another a different thing (hamza and the BNP) when the BNP are a lot less violent etc but they get a worse name.
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its a shame when our country allows one man to say one thing and another a different thing (hamza and the BNP) when the BNP are a lot less violent etc but they get a worse name.

Wrong again, Jack.

 

The preachings of the BNP compared to that of Hamza's are written a lot more subtely. Granted. Hamza is a lot more grotesque in what he's saying.

 

However Hamza is not a political party, and Hamza is not trying to get the people of Britain to elect him into power and govern the country, Hamza is not shoving leaflets full of racist propaganda through people's letterboxes, and Hamza is not inciting racial violence like the BNP have done in Burnley and Oldham.

 

To put what Hamza is doing into perspective: imagine you (any of you) are meeting up in your backgarden, or garages, with friends, and you are all QPR fans and you are talking about the 1980's when QPR fans used to have bloody, gory fights with Chelsea fans.

 

Suddenly the police come around and say "because you are talking about this privately in your garage, we are taking away your passport, and we have recorded what you have said privately (they point to a memeber of your group who is an undercover cop with a dictaphone), and we are giving this to The Sun newspaper so everyone can read what you've been saying."

 

I'm glad he's gone, but to be fair to the guy (in a strictly legal sense), the only reason we hate him so much is because his private life and beliefs have been made public knowledge.

 

Cheers!

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Hamza is not shoving leaflets full of racist propaganda through people's letterboxes' date=' and Hamza is not inciting racial violence like the BNP have done in Burnley and Oldham.[/quote']

He is racist though.

 

To put what Hamza is doing into perspective: imagine you (any of you) are meeting up in your backgarden' date=' or garages, with friends, and you are all QPR fans and you are talking about the 1980's when QPR fans used to have bloody, gory fights with Chelsea fans.[/quote']

thats kinda like two stories put together so it doesnt make sense in theory, but i know what your getting at.

 

I'm glad he's gone' date=' but to be fair to the guy (in a strictly legal sense), the only reason we hate him so much is because his private life and beliefs have been made public knowledge.[/quote']

no the reason we hate him is because he preaches to people to say 9/11 was right, we should kill jews, we should kill christians and all the west. that is why we hate him.

in a way by putting this in the papers etc hes won, because people will say "england are anti-muslim" etc and his beliefs will get more followers

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no the reason we hate him is because he preaches to people to say 9/11 was right' date=' we should kill jews, we should kill christians and all the west. that is why we hate him.[/quote']

Absolutely, you're right.

 

We hate the guy. I hate the guy. I think most of us on TWO hate the guy. But that's not the point.

 

"Freedom of Speech" is the point. He says things that people disagree with, and that make people hate him. Fair enough. You can't punish him for that though. You can't punish him for having his views. You can't put him in prison for him preaching IN PRIVATE that the Western World should be punished by bombing us. You can't do it. It's free speech.

 

If Tony Blair said "right, I've had enough Hook, I'm putting you in prison because of what you're saying", he will go down in history as a vicious dictator who imprisoned people who spoke out of turn. The man who denied free speach, the thing we've been fighting for for over 100 years.

 

Saddam Hussein imprisoned people for saying stuff he disagreed with, as did Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mugabe. Tony Blair will never do that. That's why he exploited the dodgy old law that George Bush has devised: that if he *thinks* you could *possibly* be *suspected* of being a terrorist then he can imprison you without trial.

 

Cheers!

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im all for freedom of speech but there has to be a limit somewhere down the line.

No. There shouldn't be. There shouldn't be any restrictions on what a human being is allowed to say.

 

Now if someone breaks the law, then yes, they should be prosecuted. But for someone merely speaking? No.

 

Cheers!

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THEY were inciting racial hatred. Not him. It hurts, but it's true.

 

And before someone else says "but he was standing in the middle of north London saying these things"...NO HE WAS NOT. Hook runs a mosque in n.London, and he preaches this garbage to people who believe it. He never ONCE preached this to the public. Yes, they have photos of him standing outside the mosque, talking to people outside the mosque, of course they do, he does go there every day.

 

I've got to disagree.

 

If you can make the journey, me and yourself will sit in my town centre where we will tell a select audience how Muslims are the scum of the earth, couple with the burning of either a naitonal flag or religious symbol representing the Muslim faith. Do you think we'll get arrested? Hell yeah. But why the hell doesn't Hamza when he's doing the same; and he has police guarding his rants! How F'N stupid.

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I've got to disagree.

 

If you can make the journey, me and yourself will sit in my town centre where we will tell a select audience how Muslims are the scum of the earth, couple with the burning of either a naitonal flag or religious symbol representing the Muslim faith. Do you think we'll get arrested? Hell yeah. But why the hell doesn't Hamza when he's doing the same; and he has police guarding his rants! How F'N stupid.

 

We'd get arrested for inciting violence, whereas if anyone English took offence to any thing ol' Hooky had to say and got violent they'd be arrested for being violent and racist.

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Kinda true, I was watching Lethal Weapon 4 last night and when Danny Glover finds out his daughter is up the duff he says the dad better be black. If that was a white character then all hell would have broke loose.
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If you can make the journey' date=' me and yourself will sit in my town centre where we will tell a select audience how Muslims are the scum of the earth, couple with the burning of either a naitonal flag or religious symbol representing the Muslim faith. Do you think we'll get arrested? Hell yeah. But why the hell doesn't Hamza when he's doing the same; and he has police guarding his rants![/quote']

One of my friends (muslim) went to one of those Hamza speeches, just to see what the fuss was about. And this is my point: all Hamza did was read from the Koran to a group of muslims. That's all he did.

 

Only once he had left did things turn ugly, and all the flag-burning start. It's easy for a tabloid newspaper to take a picture of Hamza speaking to a group of muslims. It's also easy to take a picture of the same muslims burning flags and then cutting and pasting those pictures together to manipulate a story.

 

Why didn't the police, who were present with video cameras, arrest him for speaking racist garbage? Or inciting violence?

 

Because he did no such thing.

 

Don't get me wrong - his actions influence people but under the letter of the law he is completely innocent. He speaks racist garbage in his mosque but it's private property and he can speak what he wants.

 

If, for example you, Cactus, walked into that mosque when Hamza was preaching his anti-western bile and you then went to the police to report him what would they say?

 

Something like "well what did you expect?", or "Well don't go in there" or "what do you expect us to arrest him for?". It's all free speech. And Hamza doesn't say these things publically.

 

That's why the Americans got involved.

 

why the hell is it ok for asians balcks ok to be racist and not us? also too many place that goddamn race card

What are you trying to say?

 

Where I live all the Asians stick together, all the Blacks stick together, and so do the whites, and they fight often (especially the Blacks and the Asians - constant, constant fighting). I was outside a nightclub, waiting for a taxi when trouble kicked off, blacks vs Asians (AGAIN), punches were thrown, names were called.

 

Anyway, one of the black women shouted "you bunch of P**is (you can imagine what that word was...)", after that, all you heard from her black friends is "that's not cool", "you shouldn't say that" and such-like. They still pulled knives on each other, but being racist wasn't cool.

 

And that's my point, Jack. It's NOT ok, but it happens.

 

I was watching Lethal Weapon 4 last night and when Danny Glover finds out his daughter is up the duff he says the dad better be black. If that was a white character then all hell would have broke loose.

Spot on, Darkstar; and this is the thing that REALLY gets my goat. Can you imagine, on Coronation Street: teen harlot, Sarah Platt, on the rebound after being dumped by her gay bloke, starts seeing three men simultaneously, two white guys and a black guy. One day she comes home from school, uh-oh, she's pregnant AGAIN. Her mum Gail remarks, "well at least the baby is twice as likely to be white, what with having two white kids already you dont want an odd one out".

 

You're talking riots in the streets.

 

Another thing that PISSES me right off. When I lived in America there was a channel called BET (Black Entertainment Television), it mainly played music vids, but at night had some comedy programmes. All black entertainers, all black presenters, all black owners, all black writers, directors, producers and office juniors. No-one bats an eyelid at BET, and to be fair, it has some decent shows. My point? Imagine it was called WET...

 

Absolute pure, vile racism? Or something by blacks, for everyone?

 

Cheers!

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Another thing that PISSES me right off. When I lived in America there was a channel called BET (Black Entertainment Television), it mainly played music vids, but at night had some comedy programmes. All black entertainers, all black presenters, all black owners, all black writers, directors, producers and office juniors. No-one bats an eyelid at BET, and to be fair, it has some decent shows. My point? Imagine it was called WET...

 

Absolute pure, vile racism? Or something by blacks, for everyone?

 

Cheers!

 

Don't even get me started on the double standards *cough*MOBO's*cough*

 

That is certainly a rant for another day.

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isnt that racist? by not allowing whites to feature in these events? but of course they dont ban it, because if they did they would be a damn riot but if an awards show was for just whites then there would be a riot to stop it! has everyone heard they are banning some nursery rhymes etc because they were used againgst blacks 100s of years ago?
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