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Hogan is still WCW World Champion


The Beltster
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The guy never lost the belt to Sting at Starrcade 97, he legdropped and CLEANLY pinned Sting, there was no fast count.

This throws a spanner in the works for the so called WWF Undisputed World title, as Hulk was still WCW champ.

Everything that has happened with the WCW title since that night is a sham and disputes the undisputed belt! :lol

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Actually, by that reckoning, everything up til Bash At The Beach '00 was a sham, which means DAVID ARQUETTE WASN'T REALLY CHAMPION!!!! WCW IS SAVED!!!!

 

Cas don't forget, Vince Russo retired that belt during his (totally f*****g awesome) shoot on Hogan and made it the Hogan Memorial Belt. So in actuality, Hogan is the champion of that belt.

 

But by that reckoning also, the Undisputed title doesn't have the linage we thought it did. In fact, it only goes back as far as Booker T and Scott Steiner.

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Exactly what I'm saying. The Undisputed belt is disputed. Hulk Hogan never really lost that match in December 1997, so from that night in 1997, the WCW belt and everything that has happened to it, doesnt count. Hulk Hogan is the longest reigning WCW champion EVER! (Almost 8 years now and still counting! lol)

Also, from December 2001 (Vengeance) the WWF/WWE title has been meaningless, as thats when they unified the WCW Title with the WWF World title, but they cant do that without the rightful WCW World champion (Hulk Hogan).

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With all his money Hogan should start a new' date=' third, fed to up the ante with WWE and NWA competition-wise. He could be the first champ to give the belts validity a good start.[/quote']

 

I think Hogan is a very smart business man, and understands that if he started his own fed, it probably wouldnt last a whole hell of a long time, and would cost him ALOT of cash.

He should go to TNA now they have their new TV deal and take the NWA title. As much as people bitch about him, he is STILL THE most recognised star in all of wrestling, and would give the title some credability, and whoever he dropped it to, the superstar rub.

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But remember - the Undisputed title isn't the WCW belt Hogan was given though. The undisputed title only goes back to Booker T' date=' so that title isn't really disputed. It's just everything up to 2000 ;)[/quote']

 

Ah, but let me explain. The WCW belt that Russo threw at Hulk Hogan WASNT the WCW title belt that debuted in the 80's that was given to Ric Flair. The one Russo threw in was a cast replica made by JMar championship belts. (I believe it was JMar, it may have been somebody else).

Russo then stated that that belt was the "Hulk Hogan memorial belt" and that Jeff Jarrett was "Still WCW World champion". So the belt Hogan has (which still has a Jeff Jarrett nameplate on it, by the way!) is a completely different belt, not the official WCW Big Gold that was used up until they unified it with the WWF World title (and the same belt that was also used by HHH when the 'World title' was created until WWE got a new one made by JMar with the WWE logo and different leather cut).

So the title Hulk never lost to Sting in 1997 IS the one they used to unify the titles.

So, as you can see, the Undisputed title is, infact, disputed.

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Hey Beltmark its like this... Hogan at Starrcade probably had a movie to do and didn't want to lose clean to Sting so with the creative control clause in his contract allowed this scenario to take place so in a sense Hogan decided to vacate the title and J.J. Dillon announced a match between Sting and Hogan to tie it all up and Sting therefore winning with Hogan's consent due to his creative control clause, he allowed Sting to have the title! Sting then carrys forth the title for the linage.

 

Or put it this way, Hogan is a washed up egomanic who's past glories in the ring he believes allow him to hold all other talent and feds to ransom for his services, he isn't the current World Heavyweight Champ and the fact is the Undisputed titles linage is shot anyway due to a previous dispute that pre dates Vince taking over the WWWF and changing into the WWF(E). Happy now?

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Hey Beltmark its like this... Hogan at Starrcade probably had a movie to do and didn't want to lose clean to Sting so with the creative control clause in his contract allowed this scenario to take place so in a sense Hogan decided to vacate the title and J.J. Dillon announced a match between Sting and Hogan to tie it all up and Sting therefore winning with Hogan's consent due to his creative control clause, he allowed Sting to have the title! Sting then carrys forth the title for the linage.

 

Or put it this way, Hogan is a washed up egomanic who's past glories in the ring he believes allow him to hold all other talent and feds to ransom for his services, he isn't the current World Heavyweight Champ and the fact is the Undisputed titles linage is shot anyway due to a previous dispute that pre dates Vince taking over the WWWF and changing into the WWF(E). Happy now?

 

Um, no need to spew a bunch of anti Hogan crap in a light hearted thread dude.

Let me say it again, for your benefit ok?

 

FACT: Hogan pinned Sting CLEAN at Starrcade 97. You can bring up any of your "Hulk held people down" garbage, and I'll grant, he held people down, BUT the FACT remains, Hulk beat Sting 1-2-3. Anything after that makes no difference, the reason it happened, makes no difference.

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Yup' date=' that too! The WWF title and WCW title, if we really wanted to be factual, were both never lost by the respective champions in 1997, so both titles can be considered 'disputed'.[/quote']

 

But according to the record books the title changed hands on both occassions, therefore there should be no dispute. It doesnt matter how the belts changed hands, they just did, so i dont really see what all the fuss is about?

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Alright then, I'll keep lighthearted... Hogan won back his undisputed title from HHH, this is true he got back the title that was rightfully his and unified it with the WWE title (again and truely). So when he lost the title as tazz pointed out to the Taker then the title became Takers and still undisputed...

 

As for Bret Hart when he retired he vacted the title and it became bestowed upon the champion at the time... Although I ight add Buddy Rodgers is still NWA world champ due to the nature of the loss to Lou Thesz, the matches were 2 out of three, Lou won one fall and was awarded the title which was against the NWA rules of the time. So when Buddy Rodgers became the first WWWF champ later that year he became the undisputed champion and the NWA title, the one Hogan held as the WCW title lost its prestige!

 

Which means the WWWF which became the WWF title was undisputed and that means as Bret never really lost makes Bret Hart the retired and undefeated Undisputed World Champion!

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Alright then, I'll keep lighthearted... Hogan won back his undisputed title from HHH, this is true he got back the title that was rightfully his and unified it with the WWE title (again and truely). So when he lost the title as tazz pointed out to the Taker then the title became Takers and still undisputed...

 

As for Bret Hart when he retired he vacted the title and it became bestowed upon the champion at the time... Although I ight add Buddy Rodgers is still NWA world champ due to the nature of the loss to Lou Thesz, the matches were 2 out of three, Lou won one fall and was awarded the title which was against the NWA rules of the time. So when Buddy Rodgers became the first WWWF champ later that year he became the undisputed champion and the NWA title, the one Hogan held as the WCW title lost its prestige!

 

Which means the WWWF which became the WWF title was undisputed and that means as Bret never really lost makes Bret Hart the retired and undefeated Undisputed World Champion!

 

See, there ya go, thats better, less anti-Hogan stuff and more facts. I like it. I agree, if you want to go back to Thesz and Rogers, but the NWA board of Directors at that time obviously allowed this to take place, so therefor Thesz can be classed as World champion.

The difference here is, Bret Hart was the person who restarted the match at Starrcade AND registered the submission of Hogan, even though he wasnt the designated official of that match. The designated official was Nick Patrick, who counted a valid 3 and as they say, the referee's decision is final.

None of this matters, of course, as its all a work, but still, its something to talk and think about.

As for Hogan winning it back from HHH, if Hogan never lost it, HHH never legally won it, so everything after December 1997 concerning the WCW World title in invalid.

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hogan was beaten many times since then...including by the undertaker for the undisputed title

 

if the title was indeed disputed that would have resolved the matter

 

Yes, BUT he was beaten by Taker for a title which shouldnt excist, as the Undisputed title was the WWF and WCW World titles unified, and you cant unify the belts without the champion, and that was/is Hulk Hogan.

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But according to the record books the title changed hands on both occassions' date=' therefore there should be no dispute. It doesnt matter how the belts changed hands, they just did, so i dont really see what all the fuss is about?[/quote']

 

There is no fuss and I'm not mad/angry or saying Hogan IS or SHOULD BE WCW World champion, I'm just putting a 'what if' spin on it, thats all. Just to spark debate.

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Ah but my other point is, he was the WCW champ in theory when he fought HHH for the title which also contained the Undisputed title yes. By winning the title from HHH he legally unified the titles at Backlash which meant that Taker therefore won the legal undisputed title which continued till Lesnar beat the the Rock and it was separted again.

 

But so far we have a number of opinions...

 

Hogan is still WCW champ

Hart is still WWF champ

Lesnar was the last undisputed champion and that belts lineage traces to HHH/Hogan at Backlash

Lesnar was the last undisputed champ and he won a title that traces back to BATB 2000 when Booker T beat Jarrett for the new World Title

The title time line still is valid

Buddy Rodgers was the offical Undisputed champion and the WWF championship is truely the undisputed title... this is now held by Eddie Guerrero and Benoit's title is a fraud

Bret Hart never lost the WWE title that dates back to Rodgers so he is the undefeated and undisputed champion of the world

 

Wow covered a lot of ground there ain't we?

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There is no fuss and I'm not mad/angry or saying Hogan IS or SHOULD BE WCW World champion' date=' I'm just putting a 'what if' spin on it, thats all. Just to spark debate.[/quote']

 

Sorry, lately most sarcasm etc seems to be going over my head completely. So going onto the topic, i would assume that there have been many disputed finishes and title changes, how are we even sure that the belt Hogan had was the WCW championship? My wrestling history isnt that great so i couldnt say, but surely there has been more changes that could be disputed in this manner from years ago?

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Fact is their was a battle royal before hand, a good two or three years before Hogan's match with Sting where Savage eliminated One Man Gang and became champion and awarded the title even though Hogan had never been elimanted... Savage then lost the title to Flair without having a decision match with Hogan, therefore making the title history and linage in dispute way before the match with Sting....

 

Not had alotta luck has he really Hogan?

 

And its not even the World title in dispute... remember the fact that the WWE overturned a title change between the Rockers and the Harts because the top rope came undone and the match shouldn't have contiued due to an unsafe working enviroment? That should put the title in further dispute, or even the fact that Alundra Blaze is still really the Womens champ?

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Yes' date=' BUT he was beaten by Taker for a title which shouldnt excist, as the Undisputed title was the WWF and WCW World titles unified, and you cant unify the belts without the champion, and that was/is Hulk Hogan.[/quote']

 

this is a pretty pointless argument really since if you went back through history and brought up every instance of controversy it'd make your head spin trying to follow the lineage

 

but assuming we disregard everything else in history prior to hogan losing to sting, when he fought for and won the "undisputed" title from triple h, that would put the wcw title back in his possession (in your opinion rightfully so)

 

then he lost it to taker...therefore no longer champion

 

and btw...sting's title win was held up and then he beat hogan in the rematch at superbrawl to settle any controversy...so this is not even a topic of debate in my opinion

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this is a pretty pointless argument really since if you went back through history and brought up every instance of controversy it'd make your head spin trying to follow the lineage

 

but assuming we disregard everything else in history prior to hogan losing to sting, when he fought for and won the "undisputed" title from triple h, that would put the wcw title back in his possession (in your opinion rightfully so)

 

then he lost it to taker...therefore no longer champion

 

and btw...sting's title win was held up and then he beat hogan in the rematch at superbrawl to settle any controversy...so this is not even a topic of debate in my opinion

 

It obviously is a topic of debate, as this thread has got a ton of hits in a short period of time.

I dont understand why your getting to highly strung over such a small issue, it was meant to be something fun, not something for you to take so seriously that you get pissed off over! LOL

The fact is, I wasnt counting anything before this event, I'm just using this event and this instance as an example, nothing more.

Chill bro...

BTW, as for Stings win being held up, that makes no difference and doesnt settle ANY controversy, because Hogan won the match fair and square, so the title should never have been held up, it should have been given right back to Hogan. Since that didnt happen, it could be argued that everything that has happened since with the WCW World title doesnt count.

This is just for arguments sake, of course, and to have a laugh talking about.

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