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End of the CrossFace


RhinoRock
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Does anyone else think the CrossFace has become a pathetic finishing move lately?

 

When it was first intorduced, it definitely looked like a move that caused some pain. With the opponents arm twisted, bent back against the shoulder, trapped between Benoits legs & him pulling for all he was worth (alledgedly) with his hands clasped across the victims face.

 

Now he doesn't even get hold of the arm. The opponent could pull it out at anytime.

 

Either it needs to be applied properly or dropped all together.

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It still hurts belive me! The reason to twist the arm is to create additional pain in the shoulder. Even without this the move badly hurts the neck and (depending on how the hands are grasped) face. Admittedly it looks better when done full on, but hey whos perfect?

 

But to be honest if Benoit used a hip toss as a finisher I'd mark for it. Loved him since ECW.

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Come on man-have you not heard the pop on that thing? It was like if Torrie and Stacey got down to hardcore HLA an camera! Well not quite that bad........

 

Well, when you're there live you're going to cheer for Rikishi and Scotty when they do their dancemoves, WORM and stinkface ect... that's why there is so many pops. But I bet you, atleast three quarters of the Smackdown! viewers are bored of the Too Cool gimmick.

 

And what in the hell are you thinking comparing it to Torrie and Stacey doing some HLA on camera?

 

Geeze, so you get that many thrills over the Too Cool moves? :lol :P

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Naah, I think the Crossface hurts like hell, even if he doesn't apply it 100% correctly all the time. I used to look at the Crossface when I was younger and think "HOW does that even hurt?". Seriously. Only now do I sometimes wince that that move is applied. Ouch!

 

The move that is looking worse and worse each week is the Walls of Jericho. It used to be a devastating move where the victim's neck was twisted and Jericho's weight was on the victim's shoulders and upper back. It was my favourite move ever, now it's just a Boston Crab.

 

Cheers!

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The best Walls Of Jericho I ever saw was back in WCW when it was the "Liontamer" and he applied it on Juvi Guerrera. He wrenched back like he used to, and dug his knee into Juvis back and was pretty much on one knee and a foot whilst leaning back. It looked absolutely killer.
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I think even when it is not applied fully, the CrossFace looks like a very painful hold. It does help that Benoit's facial expressions when using it are a bit exagerated, but it puts across that he is locking that hold in with all his might. This move can live on through the ages, and with the right guy using it, it will always get over. Same with the Sharpshooter, it just needs the right guy using it.
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I doubt it hurts that much. Most wrestlers main awe of Benoit is that he makes things look damn stiff and realistic. Thus I'd imagine the crossface, like a bodyslam or a suplex, is a 2 way thing, and the wrestler wrench their heads back, the arm isnt twisted, and Benoit just does the convincing. If it really did cane, it wud have been banned by the WWE now for causing injuries.
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The crossface is an all round good move, just as the sharpshooter is. As someone said earlier, put it on the right guy and it works like a diamond.

 

This move is always going to be over no matter what... It's great how Benoit keeps coming up with counters into it though, top stuff :xyx

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I think anyone who's been put in a Crossface knows, it hurts like hell. I like it as a finisher. It can be applied from almost anywhere, and it looks like it hurts. This I believe is in no small part due to Benoit's facial expression when he applies it, but I think its here to stay.
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Quote Ed_666"I've never thought the crossface looked particularly bad. So he's pulling on the head - so what? An abdominal stretch looks about as painful, and when was the last time someone submitted to that?"

 

Oh dear oh dear. Yet again we stumble on a seriuos problem with internet critics. I hope this does not come across as a personal attack it is not meant to be it is just unlucky that ed has brought such a good example to the forefront of my mind. You're comment of "so he's pulling on the head so what". Ever been in the move ed? Ever had it sinched in properly? I'm guessing not. Yes wrestling is "fake" (damn i hate using that word" but it is based on real moves which when applied properly hurt like hell. The whole point of professional wrestling is to make it look like it hurts but not do that much damage. The crossface can seriously screw up someones neck if done properly. i'm guessing that someone like benoit has the strength to rip my head off. Also you're abdominal stretch... if locked in properly (quite hard to do without the guys arm slipping) can pretty much rip your shoulder clean out. All the "submission moves" if used properly can easily make someone tap. The joy of professional wrestling is to make it look like it hurts but actually not kill the guy. Seen any UFC or pride recently? Number one finisher probably the good old arm bar and in pro wreslting no one ever taps to that.

So stop your attacks on submission moves, anyone who's been in them (and i have so i know) should know the basis of the move and the damage that it can do. The trick in pro wrestling is to make it look like it is locked in properly but actually not do it. Much harder than it looks. So much respect to benoit who makes them all look bloody painful.

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The crossface can seriously screw up someones neck if done properly. i'm guessing that someone like benoit has the strength to rip my head off. Also you're abdominal stretch... if locked in properly (quite hard to do without the guys arm slipping) can pretty much rip your shoulder clean out. All the "submission moves" if used properly can easily make someone tap.

Without speaking on behalf of Ed, The Assignment, I think you have pretty much validated his point.

 

I think what Ed was getting at was the fact that in essence the Crossface and an Abdominal Stretch are in the same ballpark: they are submission moves based on the pulling/stretching of your opponent's muscles.

 

I'm sure both hurt like hell when both applied properly, as you said so convincingly, so why do stars feel they should tap out to the Crossface (if their head is about to get ripped off by Benoit) and not the Abdominal Stretch (if their shoulder is about to get ripped clean out)?

 

Why does pro-Wrestling Entertainment feel it neccesary to make one move look more painful than the other when in reality, they are as dangerous, and bloody painful, as each other?

 

Cheers!

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Yep, that was pretty much what I was saying, thanks. :xyx

 

I have no problem with most submission holds which look really painful (sharpshooter, walls of Jericho, Brock Lock, Haas of pain etc), but the crossface isn't always applied in the same way. Some guys look like their arm is trapped and pulled back, others have it bent and look like they could pull it out easily. It just gives the impression that it's NOT locked in most of the time, because they have the ability to move their arm around.

 

Ed

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I admit it does hurt when properly done (found ou the hard way) but as a performance moves i think it blows pretty bad. When he starts nodding his head with the facial expressions thats are so easily worked out as fake, it just makes me think "What an absoloute w*****. I read that you think how he counters into it is goodd i i counter that by saying i disagree. I was watching a match a few weeks ago with him versus can't remember but he dodged the running man and the man went straight into the turnbuckle. As soon as he ran againg and Benoit started turning round to face the running dude i knew instantly the Crossface was coming, to me it's to predictable. I think thats probably because i don't like those moves as finishers anyway (except the walls) i like to see the match end with a bang instead of a crappy little hold in the floor... But it's all opinion and that's just mine...
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how can you all say youve experianced the crossface? the reason you all think it hurts so bad is because: you need to lift yourself up with youre free arm and the person apllying the move cant lift your head high enough to hurt the other person. if you watch it when a guy cant push himself up benoit cannot lift the head which makes the move look crap.
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When he starts nodding his head with the facial expressions thats are so easily worked out as fake' date=' it just makes me think "What an absoloute w*****. [/quote']

 

Hmmm. To me when Benoit does that it makes it look like he is killing the guy. How its so easily "worked out as fake" is beyond me. Anyways, each to their own I guess. "What an absolute w*****" seems a little harsh. But anyway, it's strange how people talk about Triple H getting a hard time around here. Benoit seems to have been getting it worse than anyone lately. Whether it be Ed and his usual redundant rantings about Benoit or someone calling him a w****r. :lol But anyway, keep the Benoit bashing coming TWOites, you know I love it really :xyx

Edited by The Crippler
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the moves which hurt most are boston crab and camel clutch and the move in which the armbar (with arm in between legs)

 

I don't know, you try and put someone in a boston crab or a camel clutch and they will take it. The second you try the crossface they fight it, its hurts like hell, when Benoit locks it in wrenching back the neck you can see it hurts!

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