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Re: Ravenmark/Manonthemoon/TonyClifton


Kam
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(Compiled by: DraVen)

 

Hi,

 

This is going to be a little awkward to write, because under the circumstances, it's not going to be pleasant for anyone concerned. However, this is an issue that we feel has to be addressed, rather than left alone.

 

As everyone knows, not too long ago, Manonthemoon (Edward) joined the forum and told us that Scott Miller, aka Ravenmark, had passed away. Naturally, we all passed our condolences and some even were generous enough to dedicate signature space to his memory and ask for a Hall Of Fame placement for him and even for the next Pay-Per-View chat to be dedicated to him, as of course he was well-known for his PBP commentary.

 

However, many within the workers unit have reason to suspect that things aren't as they seem. As sad as the incident was, the whole circumstances surrounding it have led us to convert this into a conspiracy theory, so to speak. We feel we have many points we would like to push forward in the hope of answers and more importantly, a conclusion.

 

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Ravenmark's Death:

 

Manonthemoon put forward this message on March 29th:

 

Hello,

 

The majority of users on these boards will not know me, but one of which who I was good friends with was Scott, also know as Ravenmark.

 

I say was, because 2 days after my 21st birthday on the 14th March 2004 - Scott passed away.

 

Scott was attempting to fix the fuse box in the block of flats that he owns in Salford because of a power cut in the early hours of the morning when he received a severe electric shock when the power came back on, causing Scott to have a heart attack. Scott died during the short trip from his flat to Hope Hospital.

 

I am sure Scott is watching Rikidozan battling Freddie Blassie in that big old ring up in the sky.

 

God Bless mate, you are always in my thoughts.

 

Your Friend,

 

Edward Walsh.

 

Well, that seems well and good, except a good friend of ours, a electrician, put forth his own ideas:

 

As some of you may know, I'm a qualified electrician which is why I've thought about the cause of this death more than most of you would have. Now don't get me wrong, in a power cut situation, if your pissing around in a mains board, the electric comes back on and your touching the wrong part, you're dead quite simply, so yes this could possibly have happened. But I still think it's weird.

 

Firstly, I think there are people out there who are willing to add the odd socket or light in their house, I don't think there are that many who are stupid enough to remove the cover from their distribution board (fuse box) and start playing around in it. As it said in the BBC Rogue Trader episode with electricians, most people are scared of them, thats why cowboys (not me )make loads of money out of replacing them.

 

Secondly we've all been at home when the power has suddenly gone off, what do you do? In my experience most people will check their distribution board if everything is switched on or theres no blown fuses most people will check with a neighbour to see if they have power, if they do it's your problem, if they don't it's down to the electricity supplier.

 

Now this case was definitely a problem with the electricity supplier, this is because he clearly stated that the fatal shock was received when the power "suddenly came back on". In a block of flats you'd know because any non-emergency lights in the hallway would also be off, also I'm sure that you'd knock on another flat to see if they had power. Also at least 1 in every 3 streetlights in the area would be out and it's usually noticeable that people in surrounding buildings have no power, so why anyone even slightly intelligent would even bother attempting to "fix the fusebox" is beyond me.

 

If the powercut was localised to the block of flats meaning that there would have been street lighting and noticeable power in neighbouring buildings, then the electricity company would have been outside repairing the fault and I'm sure would have attempted to gain access to the block of flats first to run some test's inside. Therefore they would have been seen, thus stopping anyone from attempting to run their own repairs.

 

Also the type of dist board found at the bottom of a block of flats, is not the sort of thing somebody un-qualified would want to mess around with. You certainly wouldn't describe it as a fuse box. They're usually located inside rooms/cupboards surrounded by other switchgear. Most people wouldn't attempt to remove the cover because of the warning labels, also once inside there are covers on live parts, so you can't touch live parts without exposing them yourself. Most people after removing the board would just see a mess of different coloured wires and think "**** that" and put the cover back on. Also the board that would control the power to the individual flats would be sealed shut because it is the property of the electricity company, and it's a criminal offence to break this seal and remove the cover.

 

So as you can see I've thought about this, I'd like to ask some questions, where was this fusebox located, what was he attempting to do with it etc etc, but I'm sure we can't get answers to these questions.

 

It's all very strange, with the regulations these days something has to go majorly wrong with someones electrical installation or they have to be acting very very stupidly to get a fatal electric shock in a domestic environment

 

Remlap also spoke to me and mentioned something his father said to him, which would further back up this argument. Could Edward be able to give us more information on what happened?

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

The IP Addresses:

 

TonyClifton: The IP Address is: 213.122.124.53. The host name is: host213-122-124-53.in-addr.btopenworld.com.

 

MOTM: The IP Address is: 213.122.123.35. The host name is: host213-122-123-35.in-addr.btopenworld.com.

 

RM : The IP Address is: 213.122.49.133. The host name is: host213-122-49-133.in-addr.btopenworld.com.

 

Any answers?

 

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Manonthemoon:

 

I'd like to point out that whilst he seems like a nice guy, I'd like to put him on the spot for a second:

 

1) Although maybe a small mistake, why does your post say that you are 21, whilst your profile says you are 22?

 

2) Why have you said that Ravenmark died on the 14th when, according to what you said, what we personally know, and legal terms, he'd have died on the 15th?

 

3) Why did it take you so long to find a forum he posted on before telling us about his death? If he talked to you about it, why not join whilst he was around? Why wait 2 weeks, then post, and then say you're only here to report his death, after at least 2 posts of doing otherwise?

 

4) Why do you have exactly the same style, ending, and mistakes in your writing that both TonyClifton and RavenMark do/did?

 

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The Private Messages:

 

Anyone who read the "Why Do You Hate Me" thread by ChrisfromBirtley will have seen the climax being Manonthemoon informing us of a PM sent by CfB which was disparaging to the name of Ravenmark.

 

I didn't hate CfB until he sent he me a PM - I have deleted it now, but it went something lke this:

 

Why does everyone say I'm attention seeking, when they didn't about you when you told everyone Ravenmark had died?

 

What else do I need to say?

 

You are a prick.

 

Cheers,

 

Edward.

 

Now, people were very quick to jump on the bandwagon of disparaging CfB in return. Now whilst those people may have been well in their rights to say that stuff, I posted that I was going to reserve judgement. I couldn't understand why:

 

- ChrisfromBirtley would say such a disgusting thing

- ChrisfromBirtley would say such a thing to a person not even part of the thread

- ChrisfromBirtley would even need to PM him about a matter that was between myself, himself, Nicole and Colin. Even Inno was more involved than Edward.

 

No one couldn't understand why CfB would even have a motive to.

 

Well, we did a little investigation, because we didn't buy into Edward's claims. It was way too suspicious, and we didn't buy into him "deleting" a PM because it upset him, instead of reporting it. We questioned CfB and he flat out denied it, claiming he didn't even know RM had died, and that he was very upset at the accusation. His outbox was checked without him knowing and no trace of PM was found, bar old ones. Admittedly, he could have deleted them, but even I didn't know you could delete sent messages (I was always under the impression there wasn't a Sent Items folder like on WZ), and knowing how "insane" CfB can be sometimes made me believe him. No trace was found on the server either, so we can only presume Ed is lying.

 

Which begs the question, why?

 

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TonyClifton:

 

Scott Owens - 21 - Salford - Any bells?

 

Also, notice how this similar IP guy signs up under the name TonyClifton around the time Manonthemoon quotes the man himself.

 

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The Kaufman Konnection

 

One day after the film "Man On The Moon", a member signs up under the name "Manonthemoon". Referenced in Kaufman's life is how people thought he faked his own death. Also, it is well known that Tony Clifton was the alter-ego of Andy Kaufman - another connection. May be a small thing, but a little too suspicious.

 

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As you can see, we have enough "evidence" so to speak, to form a case against everything we have witnessed. I'd be lying if I said we're weren't calling anyone a liar. But we want answers, and hope that we can be given those answers.

 

Why not PM, I hear you ask? We feel you guys need to be in on this too, because it affects everyone when this community loses a valuable family member, especially in these circumstances. We think that something has gone on, and all of you deserve to know about it. HOWEVER, just because we think it doesn't make it true. Therefore we ask manonthemoon, Tony Clifton, or whichever person is deemed suitable, to reply to this thread with what they have to say. We promise not to be angry, as we are far more interested in getting to the bottom of this and working out why it has happened than starting an argument.

 

Maybe we are too suspicious for our own good, but please understand that we have experienced "liars" before, and therefore has hardened us into cynical people (although some of us were already there in the first place :P).

 

We would prefer that no one else posts here until someone has replied as necessary to this thread. However, if you MUST reply, please make it respectable. As we say, this is only what we think, and cannot be confirmed to be true until we are told. We would also like to emphasise the 'No Flaming' rule at TWO, and therefore any inappropriate comments about this matter will be deleted on sight, and you will be issued an official warning for breaking TWO rules.

 

Thank you for reading,

 

Talk Wrestling Online Team

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I suspected something all along when i was trailing through the forums, I am an Andy Kaufman expert and for a 'death' to be linked to Manonthemoon then the name Tony Clifton pops up (Clifton was and is my unsung hero), anyway I smell fish you know. Also if there was a death then it would have been reported in some way, yet using search engines I could fine no reference to it in newspapers from the area RM claims to live, local rags love stories like that. Anyway glad I was not the only one who thought all was not as it seemed, even although i did not know the guy, if he is even a guy. Edited by Godfather
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i dont want it to be a hoax as its cruel but i have seen stuff like this before on other websites so i know it goes on.

 

from the evidence presented there seems to be something suspect but we shall have to wait and see if manonthemoon or tony clifton reply here.

 

i hope so cos as kam said wed all just like answers whether it be that this is a joke or that ravenmark really is dead

 

EDIT

 

Sorry Draven! (credit the last sentence above to him not Kam)

Edited by Popsi
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I did touch my heart abit when i read the original post of RM's unforunate death. However, if you notice, i didnt post on it like many, simply because i just thought it was abit strange how someone would come onto an internet site to inform people of your friends death. However, i never thought about it as much as you guys have. And from what you put forward to us, its looking very much like a sick joke. I hope someone clears it up.

 

Vamp.

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I've been speaking to Dra bout this a few times, and the stuff from KJ really does it for me. Like in the original post, why did he own a block of flats, and why would he be playing with the electrics himself. I also don't get why he would say CFB would target him, as it was me, Dra and Colin who wound CFB originally. Yeah maybe we are cynical, but weirder stuff has happened before (Tanya anybody?). I don't know what my theory on it all is, I just know that everything Dra and contributors has found out has made me think hard on the matter, and in my mind, something is up.
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If this turns out to be a great big hoax or some kind of scam, i think alot of guys (and girls) on here are going to be very upset and angry (including me). Everything that Kam has said has put my mind into overdrive and i cant help but think something is definitely wrong with this.
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One thing I'd like to point out for those of you still maybe unsure because it was something that certainly pushed most of the TWO Staff into being convinced it's a prank...

 

Well it's two things really:

 

In the roster split thread if you look at MOTM's post you will clearly see he's quoting Tony Clifton and now oddly enough we have our very own Tony Clifton right here at TWO.

 

Go over and look at the TWO Football Club (Or something to that extent) thread and look at the post by TWO's own Tony Clifton, you may be familiar with him.

 

I'm just going over these points because although Dra summed them up, I think you really need to read those two posts and if you're like me, that'll be enough to convince you.

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ive read the first post by draven but im still confused so ive got 3 questions.

1. Are Tony Clifton, Manonthemoon and Ravenmark the same person?

2. In a post by Nicole she mentioned someone called Tanya, who is she?

3. To any friends of Ravenmark have you tried to contact him? If so what results have you got, is he really dead?

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I am sorry.

 

It was all an elaborate prank that got out of hand- I didn't expect it to get this far and I assumed I would be caught out.

 

My obsession with Andy Kaufman did lead me to this and now I feel very stupid.

 

I understand that I have upset a lot of people and many of you will be angry.

 

I apologise again.

 

Scott.

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You are very disturbed RM, we were ALL (well all of us that believed and tried defending you) genuingly upset at that news, we felt terrible and what for? for a prank, great. THAT IS NOT A PRANK! It's fecking sick pretending to of died!!! and you always seemed so sensible, ah well, least you're alive, which I am genuingly happy about.
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Gotta say - I couldn't really care less about the death thing, although many will no doubt be upset (I understand the "Humour", if you can call it that).

 

But I gotta ask about the PM. Do you step up that you lied about that too? Cas if you did, I think a few people owe CfB an apology (even if he was a dick beforehand ;))

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First of Scott I thought more of you than to pull a pathetic little prank that you have done good Dra and a few others had some come sense to put 2 and 2 together and posted the dam right truth, what sickens me more is you return from the ''dead'' on Easter Sunday no less, that went way to far and obviously it would off, so dont say that it do didnt think it would of

 

I wouldnt like to be in your postion now as I truely think it was Pathetic

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I am sorry.

 

It was all an elaborate prank that got out of hand- I didn't expect it to get this far and I assumed I would be caught out.

 

My obsession with Andy Kaufman did lead me to this and now I feel very stupid.

 

I understand that I have upset a lot of people and many of you will be angry.

 

I apologise again.

 

Scott.

 

Though i am glad to hear your not dead.......................... u are an asshole.

 

I know where not supposed to flame on here but right now i dont care

**** YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

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I am sorry.

 

It was all an elaborate prank that got out of hand- I didn't expect it to get this far and I assumed I would be caught out.

 

My obsession with Andy Kaufman did lead me to this and now I feel very stupid.

 

I understand that I have upset a lot of people and many of you will be angry.

 

I apologise again.

 

Scott.

 

Well Dra pretty much caught you out second post, and for many other staffers (like myself) it was CfB that caught you out. Anyone who still had doubt was pushed over the edge by Tony Clifton however. Of course we didn't want to go public because you have to be careful on the matter of someones death. You owe an apology to an assload of people here at TWO, the ones who still believed it was true despite the CfB situation, the ones defending Edward. CfB certainly needs an apology. After that though, you can sod off for all I care

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