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TNA pulls power-play on RoH


Rikidozan
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From http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/WO

 

'Both TNA and ROH have confirmed that none of the TNA contracted talent, which would include A.J. Styles, Christopher Daniels, Jerry Lynn, Raven and Chris Sabin, would be allowed to appear for upcoming ROH dates. This apparently includes the upcoming Chicago and St. Paul dates. The status of C.M. Punk and Traci Brooks and those shows is right now uncertain.

 

The impasse is that ROH investor Cary Silkin was advised by his attorney not to sign an agreement that would hold him personaly financially responsible for any problems TNA might have resulting from the sides working together. TNA responded by pulling all its contracted talent from ROH. The issues at first were due to concern by TNA that Rob Feinstein was still with ROH. ROH president Doug Gentry on 4/7 had signed the same document, stating Feinstein had nothing to do with the company. The document also stated he would be personally held financially responsible for any problems from TNA that would arise should Feinstein ever be part of the company again.'

 

I guess no one with TNA knows how the NWA died the first time around in the 1980s. I boggles my mind how they could pull a move like this, considering moves like this killed the NWA.

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Maybe I'm missing something but why is it a bad move from TNA? Something to do with annoying the talent by not allowing them to work somewhere in particular or something?

 

Hopefully someone can clear it up for me.

 

To be honest anything affecting RoH negatively is fine in my books.... Rob Feinstein certainly broke the 'code of honour' didn't he... mwhaha.

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From http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/WO

 

The issues at first were due to concern by TNA that Rob Feinstein was still with ROH. ROH president Doug Gentry on 4/7 had signed the same document, stating Feinstein had nothing to do with the company.

 

I think TNA has every right to be cautious in regard to Feinstieins involvement or lack of regarding ROH. From my understanding that was one of the key points that worried Fox Sports in determining to sign TNA to a television deal or not. Sad that Feinstiens actions are having a ripple effect on those never involved with him to begin with.

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TNA is doomed if this is any indication of the mind-set of Jerry Jarrett, it's bad enough he failed so laughably the first time round with the USWA. It's like Vince making the exact same mistakes WCW made, only Jarrett is repeating the same mistakes he made with his own darn promotion. It boggles my mind, it really does. Also, like Taj said, RoH is streets ahead of TNA overall.
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I have to disagree with the idea that RoH is streets ahead from a product perspective.... I mean RoH is just not my cup of tea at all... I've always felt that RoH fans were just an annoying breed of smart marks.... it's got the really annoying aspects of ECW in it.... don't know if anyone is getting the point I'm trying to make here since it's too hard to put into words...

 

It's just whenever I watch RoH it's like the fans and the workers seem to have this arrogance that they are better than the more sports-entertainment style promotions... and I really can't stand that, considering half the time it's just jumping around and seeing who can do the fanciest flip. For me, that's not wrestling.

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Well, in actuality, the RoH in-ring-style was first used by the AWA, but RoH is more high-spots based. If you've seen a show, it's obvious most of the RoH guys have a firm grasp of the basics, something TNA guys like Northcutt, Gilberti and a load of others don't. RoH isn't just high flying, to suggest otherwise would be a misnomer; Chris Daniels doesn't use many flyer moves, only stuff like moonsaults to finish on, ditto for Low Ki, who uses a hybrid martial arts/flyer style. I think the reason RoH fans believe their style is superior to sports entertainment is because...they think their style is superior to sports entertainment. And looking at critical acclaim, they're more than likely right. RoH acually hasn't stolen any ideas from Japan, RoH is juniors, Japan is think blend of heavyweights, juniors, garbage, women and a few others. I can understand the comparison, because if you've not seen much of RoH and Japan, and prodominantly WWE, then anything with wrestlers wrestling can seen the same, but it's not, really.
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TNA guys might not know the fundimentals (Northcutt doesn't, Gilberti does), but from the shows I've seen especially the X Cup ones (bar the Mexico v UK ones), the shows are pretty strong on an all-round basis WHEN booked right (and even I'll admit that isn't as often as it should be). Keeping Raven on the mic to get things over is a great move because he's probably the best talker on the Indy circuit and knows the business inside out. Pushing guys like Ron Killings and Chris Harris is good because they've been there from the start and have their own followings, as opposed to seeing just Jeff Jarrett out there all the time. Having Abyss in there with Dutch Mantell booking him is good cas Dutch is a good booker and obviosly wouldn't let anything bad happen with Abyss without a fight (and his matches with AJ were booked great cas it got Abyss over as a monster with AJs selling, and also got AJ over as the plucky underdog who can over the odds).

 

I just don't like RoH's style. It is pure wrestling, and I don't like pure wrestling. I enjoy some of the stars they have (Chris Sabin, Chris Daniels, Teddy Hart, etc), but when it comes to having seen plenty of clips and matches from there, the only major thing that has really caught my interest was the Scramble Cage with Hart's infamous work.

 

Not saying TNA will last longer than RoH, because RoH do seem to have stronger business sense. But as far as overall product, it just plain bores me to tears.

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I do try to get all of the TNA shows using BitTorrent and generally I do like them and they've come along way since their WWA quality early TV, but for every Raven, X-Divison, AJ etc segments they do produce alot of poor TV that I find my self being completly diss-interested in were as I very rarely feel that way watching RoH.

 

The only problem I have with RoH is that the editing of shows could do with improvement, Dreamer was a genius at putting together ECW shows in the basement, he knew when to clip the minor stuff so you can get the angle and those involved over without spending to much time on it and the placement of promos, recaps and adverts always made the show flow better.

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I still don't consider RoH to be pure wrestling.... for me Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and co. are what 'pure wrestling' are.

 

I wasn't meaning guys like Daniels, Samoa Joe, Low-Ki etc use moonsaults and flips all the time, but for me its just irritating, and I maintain what I said about it having the annoying smark-aimed mentality of ECW. Sure, there's no need to dumb down a product, but I just don't like how RoH go about their business. Bar a small number of guys in RoH like Daniels, I just have this whole idea in my head that RoH = annoying small boys jumping around a ring.

 

Promotions like MLW managed to be entertaining, so there must be something about RoH that is irritating. Can't put it into words well enough though.

 

And Gilberti is the man so bla :P

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Hehe below the belt HSM but i like it. As for ROH and NWA-TNA, I think the presentation is possibly what puts people off. TNA is presented as pure sports entertainment, where as ROH is presented almost as a sport, and the blood/extreme/gimmick matches are like "special attractions" so to speak. At current time to be fair, neither fed is doing particularly wonderful, both suffering from a lack of creativity. TNA is ok, although going absolutely nowhere, with the booking being confusing and looking very rushed together. Where as ROH have no idea what the hell's going on with Fenstein and everything.

 

I'd say most TNA guys have the fundamentals, but because of their increasingly erratic and rushed booking, they are sticking a lot of crappy guys out there who as Fit Finlay would say " are as green as a tropical tree frog" so that doesnt help matters. That and a lot of the wrestlers suffer from being super minor league on the mike.

 

I'd have to say on the whole ROH provides much better matches than NWA-TNA, in every sense and every style, although I do like watching both, as both have their positives and negatives. As for taking out those specific guys from ROH hhmm its a blow, but ROH can make their own headliners, as seen with what they've acheived with Doug, Samoa Joe, BJ Whitmer, American Dragon, etc etc so I'm sure just like a Paul E cheque they'll bounce........back.

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I'm astonished that people actually enjoy a product with Russo and Dusty as focal points, but each to their own and all that. I can't stress how much RoH isn't flyers, I said that before, but I'll say it again. Also again, i'll reiterate that Jerry Jarrett failed horribly as a promoter before with the USWA, and he's making the same mistakes again. I'm not sure wheather he's stuck in the 1980s, or wheather he's just really inept, but he still has the same promoting mind-set than he did twenty years ago. I don't want to rag on TNA, believe me I don't because it's an alternative to WWE, but when you have a promotion run by a 1980s promoter (who failed), and, and, have the promoter and owners' own son working on top, then there's going to be a lot of negativity from me, and others.

 

Regarding MLW...well, it's dead. It tried to be ECW with a lesser hardcore eliment, and it died on it's ass, even with good television outlets. MLW was also being run by a bunch of inept people as well in my view; you cannot fly foreign guys like Kojima and Kea in for shows when you've haven't even been around for two years. To compound that, for the love of God, don't make a foreign star your champion and give him a belt, it just means he has to fly back costing even more.

 

Oh, and RoH pulled their biggest attendance yet on 14/3, with I think believe around 1,700 in New York :xyx

Edited by Rikidozan
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I'm not a fan of TNA by any means but its a smart business deal. They have to protect their butts so to speak, because they want the television deal. The chance that any of the investors in ROH like Silkin won't attest to Feinstein gone leads someone to suspect that Rob's invovled.

 

As a fed ROH is a great fed and i support their workers, Samoa Joe is one of my favorite wrestlers... the smarkish fans really do ruin it for me with their attitudes though.

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Like I said, MLW was entertaining :P

 

I'm not saying that I enjoy when Russo comes down to the ring in his WCW-esque padding and baseball combination, I hate the guy with a flaming passion. And I hate Dusty Rhodes too.

 

But that doesn't stop me from enjoying what I think is a more old school wrestling product than RoH is. I'm not saying I love TNA by the way, infact I'd go as far as to say its been awful since Dusty Rhodes v AJ Styles etc.

 

I'm sure RoH isn't all completely high flying nonsense, but I honestly think I've watched enough RoH enough to make a reasonable assessment that it is a really annoying style of wrestling that goes on over there.

 

I remember a while ago suggesting that the WWE needed to aim at a smarter set of fans, and evolve again, but when I look at the RoH crowd (and to an extent crowds at say, FWA events) then I take it back... it just ends up not really making much sense... since there becomes no emotion involved once you take it too far.

 

After all, when you know the 2 guys in the ring are going at it, and it's more in your face that the moves you're seeing really aren't doing anything... the only emotion you'll get is the odd 'oooh' at a funny looking suplex or... moonsault :D

 

That's just my personal opinion granted though.

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Very interesting column:

 

THE RING OF HONOR-TNA SITUATION EXPOSES THE SLEAZINESS OF THE WRESTLING BUSINESS

by Dave Scherer @ 2:20:00 PM on 4/10/2004

 

 

As I am sure you have all read by now, Ring of Honor and NWA TNA have not been able to come to terms on a deal that would allow wrestlers who have signed contracts with TNA to work for both companies, despite the fact that said wrestlers signed the TNA deals with the understanding that they could work wherever they wanted, save WWE, as long as the dates didn’t conflict with a TNA show. So now, NWA TNA will force wrestlers such as AJ Styles, Chris Sabin and Christopher Daniels to give up paydays because, well, that is just what TNA wants them to do. This situation has all the trimmings for the things that are the vilest about the wrestling business.

 

To briefly recap, since the inception of NWA TNA, they have marketed themselves to the internet fan base. Much talked about plans for national advertising quickly fell by the wayside when the company went through its start-up capital within weeks of doing their first show. What they were left with was the only advertising that they could afford, that which came for free on the internet. So, they focused their efforts there. It was a sound strategy, especially considering their financial state.

 

An interesting thing happened however. Despite having weekly PPVs, NWA could never overtake Ring Of Honor as “the darling promotion of the internet”. This was a fact that rankled people in NWA TNA management to the point where some of them were heard to publicly question why ROH got over with the fans while TNA didn’t, which showed me that they didn’t listen to the internet fans’ who were complaining about the many holes in TNA’s booking. The result was that there was a definite feeling of animosity among at least some in TNA management towards ROH and it was not hidden from the talent. But, given the contracts that they signed, there wasn’t much that TNA could do about the talent’s preference of working for ROH over their promotion.

 

That all changed when ROH owner Rob Feinstein was caught in an “underage sting” by Philadelphia’s Channel 10 News. It just so happened that at the same time, TNA was negotiating a TV deal with Fox Sports Net. They were concerned about their wrestlers’ association with ROH and Feinstein coming back to hurt them down the road in their negotiations and began asking contracted TNA wrestlers to not work for ROH. After the news got out and they were pelted with hate mail from ROH fans, they backed off of their position and tried to come to an agreement with ROH, who by this time had claimed that Feinstein was out of the company and Doug Gentry was now the owner of the promotion.

 

TNA flew ROH Booker Gabe Sapolsky down to Nashville on 3/31 and asked him to sign a letter that stated Feinstein was gone from ROH and stated that there were no plans for him to return. If it turned out Feinstein was part of the company or had a return planned, Sapolsky would be held personally liable for damages that TNA incurred from the fallout of this, if any.

 

This is where the comedy of errors started because while Sapolsky never represented himself as an owner or office in the company he worked for, TNA apparently didn’t pick that up and flew him down anyway, even though he wouldn’t have been able to sign the deal anyway. TNA did no homework here and created a situation that couldn’t work. So, the plan was made for the person ROH said was the new owner, Doug Gentry, to talk with TNA and sign the same letter.

 

According TNA executive Bob Ryder, (who one would assume wrote the recap of the events between TNA and ROH today on his website 1Wrestling.com -- we can’t say definitively because Ryder doesn’t use his own name on his 1Wrestling reports, instead listing the author as “1Wrestling.com”, perhaps in an attempt to avoid conflicts with the two sides of the wrestling fence he straddles), Gentry signed the letter and faxed it to TNA.

 

At that point in time, TNA then informed ROH that they needed to have Cory Silkin, a “silent investor” in the company, sign a similar letter. He refused and that led to the events of yesterday, when all TNA contracted talent was pulled from ROH shows until such time that Silkin would sign the document.

 

In looking at this situation, there are many things I find to make the wrestling business look really bad. Let’s take a look at the list.

 

From the TNA side:

 

To me, the most important thing about this whole escapade is the incredible gall that TNA has shown. I can respect that they don’t want to be caught in any fallout from Feinstein. I wouldn’t either if I were them. But what they are doing to their talent is unconscionable. Changing the rules of the game well after it starts is a low move for TNA to pull. Plus, in addition to holding the wrestlers to a contract that they now want to change the terms of without giving anything to the talent to make it worth their while, they expect the wrestlers to do so at a loss to them.

 

They expect the workers to give up lucrative dates with Ring Of Honor, paydays that were part of their expected income when they signed deals with TNA, for nothing. TNA wants them to do that for “the sake of the company”. That’s all well and good, but if they want a concession from the wrestlers, they should pay for it. They should offer the wrestlers compensation. Instead, they expect the wrestlers to give up paydays and get nothing back in return. It’s the height of arrogance from TNA, especially when you consider that a guy like Sabin, who hardly makes enough to live on from what TNA pays him. They expect full time loyalty for part time pay and it makes me sick.

 

To make matters worse, in addition to cutting off their ROH paydays, TNA has been running one less show a month recently, thereby reducing ¼ of the money that they were paying the wrestlers. If TNA were to offer to compensate the wrestlers for the dates they are asking them to give up, I could understand their position a bit more. At least then they would be giving something back for what they are asking the wrestlers to do. But, since they aren’t, I feel they are abusing their position and forcing talent to choose between the companies, changing the rules that both sides agreed to when they signed their contract.

 

Also, part of me can’t help but wonder if there is a receipt being given here for the boys “preferring ROH over TNA,” which many of them have told us they do. I would hope that is not the case.

 

Part of me wonders if TNA is using this situation as a way to flush out whether Feinstein is indeed really gone from ROH.

 

From the ROH side:

 

While I don’t think TNA had the right to ask ROH’s people to sign personal guarantees for TNA business, mostly for the reasons stated above, their refusal to do so has once again cast doubt as to whether Feinstein is actually gone. After the scandal broke, ROH said that Feinstein left. We were expected to take them at their word. To be perfectly honest, I had my doubts since the second they announced Feinstein “sold” his interests and was not impressed with the way they released information to “prove” it. However, I felt that we had to take them at their word until it was proven otherwise.

 

I am not saying that this does that but it certainly once again casts aspersions on the ownership of the company, and that is not fair to all of the people who took Gentry and Sapolsky at their word that Feinstein was gone. Frankly, it makes me wonder again what the real deal is with ROH once again. It makes me wonder if Gentry really even signed the paper. It also makes me wonder if Feinstein is still on board, and if he is, ROH would be totally dead to me and deserve every bad thing that would happen to them in the fallout. In the end, it also leaves me feeling kind of dirty.

 

So, when the deal fell apart yesterday and TNA and ROH released their amicable joint statement, it came across to me as if the sides both knew what had gone down and they were trying to put the best possible spin on it. It certainly had the opposite effect on me.

 

All I could think was that I was staring dead into the sleazy underbelly of the pro wrestling business and I didn’t like what I saw. As much as the business needs competition and strong independent companies, it needs to get past the internal sleaziness that so often abounds in it. It needs to do that much, much more.

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They might boo heels and cheer faces in RoH, but I don't think its to any real extent. I mean it would take me a while if I was just tuning in to RoH to figure out which was which in a match.

 

I mean bar a few workers there the heels end up geting cheered when they pull off a decent move etc, it's like the ECW crowd in that sense. The heels just end up being the workers that stink (ala Jeff Hardy) as far as I've noticed.

 

I suppose it's just the fact that RoH fans seem to think they are above other wrestling fans that really pisses me off.

 

Of course forgive me for going off topic; going back to what TNA have done... I don't honestly have a problem with it, but I can understand why people are a tad pissed off at what is blatantly just any old excuse to try and get talent to wrestle exclusively for TNA, even if I hate RoH :)

Edited by Simon
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I suppose it's just the fact that RoH fans seem to think they are above other wrestling fans that really pisses me off.

 

I can understand that if you've watched mostly WWE over the years.

 

Where the hell has Scherer been?...seediness has been rife in the business since the 1970s, peaking with the steroid and sex scandel in WWE.

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